[Tommy Williamsen]

It is pretty much universal that folks on the site love chainsaws. The knock against them is that they dictate strategy, but isn't that ok once in a while? Yet, once in a while we come across a tree that helps define a hole and would be missed if removed. When I was a member at the CC of Woodmore outside DC, it was the tree on the corner of the dogleg at 17. If you weren't wide left you were stymied.


The same is true for the controversial tree on Ballyhack's 18th hole. Wide left of the tree is the only play but if you are long enough the fairway narrows at about 220 to 250 ,depending on the tee played. This is the only tree on the course that really comes into play at Ballyhack. It is a beautiful tree and helps define the hole. Some would like it limbed up, others want to turn it into firewood, but the majority of members with whom I have spoken want it left as is.





Any trees that elicit love from you?

[jeffwarne]

I'd have a bigger problem with that large nest of bunkers than the tree, especially once I'd made the decision to keep that beautiful specimen

[Tommy Williamsen]

The bunkers are well short of the extremely large green, but I am embarrassed to tell you how many times I have been in one.The right side of the fairway slopes with the ball above your feet so hitting a cut around the green is a bit difficult. Consequently those bunkers can come into play.

[Thomas Dai]

A couple of questions if I may -
How much bigger would you let the tree grow before you thought some tree surgery was required?
What is the impact of the trees root system on the holes irrigation and drainage system?
atb

[Tommy Williamsen]

A couple of questions if I may -
How much bigger would you let the tree grow before you thought some tree surgery was required?
What is the impact of the trees root system on the holes irrigation and drainage system?
atb

Thomas, the tree does not seem to affect the health of the grass in the rough under the tree or in the fairway. If you are directly under the tree, something that seems to rarely happen, roots are not a problem. They are well below the surface. If you look at the left side of the tree, it has been limbed up a bit. As for what will be done as the tree grows wider, I don't think there are any plans to cut it back. It is a pretty slow grower.

[jeffwarne]

The bunkers are well short of the extremely large green, but I am embarrassed to tell you how many times I have been in one.The right side of the fairway slopes with the ball above your feet so hitting a cut around the green is a bit difficult. Consequently those bunkers can come into play.

Not suggesting they're out of play. In my experience, nothing is "out of play".
Just questioning their size and strategic impications(they seem to juts be there to punish), or to your point the triple penalty of a sidehill lie, tree and bunkers.
Again it's just a picture(which are often deceiving) and I'm not an architect, they just seem to detract from a hole that's single feature could've been the tree(at least while it's still alive)
Gardiners Bay has very similar looking par 4(I'm sure it's shorter) and added bunkers recently down the left in the driving area, giving the shorter hitter now exactly  nowhere to drive it.
A once cool feature, and a beautiful tree that dictated and dominated choces  on the hole, rendered a simple menace for shorter hitters by pinching left bunkers that FORCE the second shot ot be played under the tree

[Tommy Williamsen]

The bunkers are well short of the extremely large green, but I am embarrassed to tell you how many times I have been in one.The right side of the fairway slopes with the ball above your feet so hitting a cut around the green is a bit difficult. Consequently those bunkers can come into play.

Not suggesting they're out of play. In my experience, nothing is "out of play".
Just questioning their size and strategic impications(they seem to juts be there to punish), or to your point the triple penalty of a sidehill lie, tree and bunkers.
Again it's just a picture(which are often deceiving) and I'm not an architect, they just seem to detract from a hole that's single feature could've been the tree(at least while it's still alive)
Gardiners Bay has very similar looking par 4(I'm sure it's shorter) and added bunkers recently down the left in the driving area, giving the shorter hitter now exactly  nowhere to drive it.
A once cool feature, and a beautiful tree that dictated and dominated choces  on the hole, rendered a simple menace for shorter hitters by pinching left bunkers that FORCE the second shot ot be played under the tree

Got it. I am nor sure what they add to the hole or if they are needed. If you have a straight shot into the green they are not in play at all except for a dreadful second shot.

[Tommy Williamsen]

What say ye about this tree?

[Jim Sherma]

That looks awful and a good candidate for removal with all prejudice.


The Ballyhack tree is fine in my book. It amazingly does not come into play as much as it looks like it should. In the fairway hitting a fairly long uphill shot I find it reasonable to keep it below the branches. That shot is so challenging in any event. Uphill to that huge green, mostly blind and knowing the undulations on it, the tree is almost an afterthought. Great hole and great finish to the round.

What say ye about this tree?

[Kyle Harris]

Some trees are worthy the poor turf underneath them.

[JMEvensky]

Some trees are worthy the poor turf underneath them.

Our Super told me the same thing when I asked about taking down a 30' oak.

[Ira Fishman]

Good:


Mid Pines 4
CPC 17
Hope Valley 11


Not good:


Pine Needles 17
River Course Kohler 13


Ira

[jeffwarne]

What say ye about this tree?

Fan of the course not the tree
There are hundreds of thousand of trees just like that on that site

[Eric LeFante]

The Eisenhower tree on 17 at August added a lot of character to the tee shot in my opinion. Nicklaus loved being on the left side of the fairway to approach that green (look where he hit his tee shot in 1986). He had to hit a solid drive to get over the tree.


I really don't like the bowling alley straight tee shot now.

[Adam Lawrence]

Some trees are worthy the poor turf underneath them.

I agree with this. Trees can easily be more important than golf. I remember going round Fontainebleau, which by any normal measure has a serious tree problem. But the problem trees there are mostly four or five hundred year old oaks. I'm sorry but they outrank the golf course. Figure a way round them.

[Jason Thurman]

My home course would certainly be derided by this group as overtreed, although it's also pretty hemmed in and it's hard to see how to remove many of them without really jeopardizing player safety in a few spots. Of late, I've been really compelled by how a few individual specimens affect play.
[/color] [/size]
[/color]Our 4th is a short uphill par 4 of about 280 yards. While there's OB well left, the area that really sees action is a grove of trees on the inside of the dogleg. If I showed you a photo of the hole in a vacuum, my guess is that most on this site would say to clear them. But they protect a pair of neighboring holes and really aren't too thick to escape. Instead, the thing that makes a miss to the right a tricky one to recover from is a solitary tall specimen oak on the right side of the green. Given the hole's short length, it's easy to set up a wedge-distance approach even from a bad miss into the grove. But even a 60* wedge won't clear the oak. It's well limbed up and certainly it's possible for a player to play a ball that flies under its branches, but the angle is a terrible one and the green is nearly impossible to hold when approached with such a shot. That one tree really does maintain the hole's integrity for the player who approaches it without discipline.[/size]
[/color] [/size]
[/color]A similar tree stands right of our 13th green. On 13, OB is pretty tight on the left and a bailout well right is not uncommon, certainly for me! It’s not a long hole – about 375 yards or so, and even an erratic block out into 14 fairway leaves nothing more than PW distance. Again, though, the shot is a very difficult one. While it’s possible to clear the tree and hold the green, it takes the best shot of the round to do so. And bringing a ball in underneath the canopy requires more than a little luck.[/size]
[/color] [/size]
[/color]I might call for a chainsaw when I’m stymied by them, but it’s hard for me to suggest in good faith that those two trees shouldn’t be there. Both holes are better for them as far as I’m concerned.[/size]

[Sean_A]

It is pretty much universal that folks on the site love chainsaws. The knock against them is that they dictate strategy, but isn't that ok once in a while? Yet, once in a while we come across a tree that helps define a hole and would be missed if removed. When I was a member at the CC of Woodmore outside DC, it was the tree on the corner of the dogleg at 17. If you weren't wide left you were stymied.


The same is true for the controversial tree on Ballyhack's 18th hole. Wide left of the tree is the only play but if you are long enough the fairway narrows at about 220 to 250 ,depending on the tee played. This is the only tree on the course that really comes into play at Ballyhack. It is a beautiful tree and helps define the hole. Some would like it limbed up, others want to turn it into firewood, but the majority of members with whom I have spoken want it left as is.



Any trees that elicit love from you?

I would say trees reduce strategy options.

Adam

Surely you choose an extreme exception to make a point? In my experience golf courses are so badly littered with shit trees that the fine specimens are buried.

Ciao

[MCirba]

I'm not a clear-cutter (perhaps with the exception of soft white pines, of which every single one can be removed from every single course and raise each of them at least a full point in quality), and a nice specimen tree has value.

However, unless you're Pebble Beach, once that tree dies so goeth the strategy.   Even ANGC didn't try to replace the Eisenhower Tree.

[Stewart Abramson]

The 4th hole at Keller in St Paul, MN is the one that first pops into my mind when asked about a tree affecting the play on a hole.



Keller #4 par 3 135 yards over tree


Here are a couple others



Blackwolf Run - River #13 (Tall Timber) par 3 205 yds





Kiawah Ocean Course #3 approach

[Tom_Doak]

Trees are like everything else in golf course architecture:  they are a matter of opinion.


I prefer people whose opinions aren't black and white.


There are some trees worth saving and working around, and letting them come into play on a hole.  Yes, they'll die someday:  maybe next year, but maybe not for 50-100 years.* 


In the meantime, why not enjoy them?  'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  Would you have cut down the great elm on the 10th at Winged Foot (East), just because it was going to die eventually?  Its beauty is now properly mourned because we all knew it.


That said, there are many instances where a big tree should be removed, no matter how beautiful it is.  If you can't grow grass on the green, the tree's gotta go.  If there's a more beautiful vista behind it that's being blocked, take out the tree.  If there's not enough room to play golf, you should either stay away from the tree altogether, or it's gotta go.


* That silly tree on the 12th at Morfontaine was there when I first saw it 35 years ago, but it's getting a bit too tall now, and it's going to have to go sooner or later.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I like the two sentinel trees fronting the 2nd? green on the Wee Course at Blairgowrie.

[archie_struthers]

 


There is a beautiful old oak tree on the left side of the fairway on the 7th at Galloway National GC. Beautiful old oak very large. The hole is a shortish par 4 that requires you to fit your tee shot into the slot to the right of the tree. I like it a lot.

[Thomas Dai]

Blackwolf Run - River #13 (Tall Timber) par 3 205 yds

Baffling.
Unless there are alternative tees or an alternative route of play out of picture how does a short hitter who plays a low slice, and there are lots of them, play this hole?
atb

[Ari Techner]

Couple examples to my mind would be:


The tree in front of the green on the 3rd at Sweetens Cove.  This hole will be drastically different if/when that tree goes. 


The old tree on the left side of the fwy on #17 at Eugene CC.  They lost that tree and replaced it with a much smaller one and it completely changed the way the hole played. 

[Tommy Williamsen]

Trees are like everything else in golf course architecture:  they are a matter of opinion.


I prefer people whose opinions aren't black and white.


There are some trees worth saving and working around, and letting them come into play on a hole.  Yes, they'll die someday:  maybe next year, but maybe not for 50-100 years.* 


In the meantime, why not enjoy them?  'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  Would you have cut down the great elm on the 10th at Winged Foot (East), just because it was going to die eventually?  Its beauty is now properly mourned because we all knew it.


That said, there are many instances where a big tree should be removed, no matter how beautiful it is.  If you can't grow grass on the green, the tree's gotta go.  If there's a more beautiful vista behind it that's being blocked, take out the tree.  If there's not enough room to play golf, you should either stay away from the tree altogether, or it's gotta go.


* That silly tree on the 12th at Morfontaine was there when I first saw it 35 years ago, but it's getting a bit too tall now, and it's going to have to go sooner or later.

I wondered who would name the tree at Morfontaine and Jeff your right the course is a bit over treed.

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