Anybody miss the old 5th at Pebble ?

[archie_struthers]

 




Anybody....only played it once in 1992 but remember the shot..Had to fit it thru the trees.

[Tim Leahy]

No. The trees weren't that close together and the green was flat. I will take the ocean hole 5th ten out of ten times.

[JMEvensky]

What's up Archie? Talked to our mutual friend lately?


I miss it. I'm a sucker for uphill(ish) blind(ish) 3-pars.

[William_G]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tom_Doak]

No. The trees weren't that close together and the green was flat. I will take the ocean hole 5th ten out of ten times.

The green was NOT flat.  It was pretty steep back to front.  Being over the back was almost an impossible up and down, in my memory of playing it 10-15 times in my teens and 20's.  It wasn't a great hole, but possibly harder than the present one.

[Ronald Montesano]

Jack had one job ...

[archie_struthers]

 


I remember playing the hole slightly into the wind and hitting a really good knock down six-iron and making the putt. Arriving at the green saw that had it been a little left or longer bogey was reality maybe worse. The green would have looked smaller the second time for sure. Being a virgin to Pebble there was no fear just hit it.


Reminds me of caddying at PVGC. Often the first round there is the best for many for a long time. The golfer trusted you implicitly particularly with no yardage markers or rangefinder. However once they saw the danger they thought about it round two and it was so much harder to get them to swing away. That was the key, helping them realize a solid shot was what they needed to succeed. A good architect knows this and takes full advantage.

[Mark_Fine]

Archie,
The old 5th was my least favorite hole followed by the 12th.  The new 5th is dramatically improved from both an aesthetic and interest standpoint.  I had played the old 5th a dozen or more times and I still remember (being a purist) that when they said they were bringing in Nicklaus to build a new hole I thought they were going to ruin the integrity of the golf course.  I was wrong. The new hole was a major change but it improved the golf course. There was no comparison as the old 5th was simply a blind “transition” hole (it just got you from the 4th which is awesome to the 6th which is also awesome)!  I remain a purist for the most part when it comes to maintaining and restoring old golf courses but I have learned that except on very rare occasions, it doesn’t make sense to maintain and/or restore crap.  The old 5th at Pebble was the worst hole on the golf course.  It was meant to be by the water and I don’t miss the old one.

[archie_struthers]

 


Mark I haven't played or seen the new hole in person, just tv. I wasn't comparing the old vs. new just didn't remember the 5th as being "weak " or that it didn't fit. Do remember the shot as being a challenge without appearing so.


The early holes at Pebble are quite easy and it certainly builds to a series of crescendos. One of the most beautiful sites I've ever seen but I'm a sucker for the ocean.

[MCirba]

Archie,
I've seen the new 5th in person and never saw the old one.
It's exactly what you'd imagine.   Small green angled to receive a fade cut into the wind.   Draws starting out over the cliff have little chance here.   

[Matthew Rose]

[Tom_Doak]

There was no comparison as the old 5th was simply a blind “transition” hole (it just got you from the 4th which is awesome to the 6th which is also awesome)!  I remain a purist for the most part

Well, the old hole DID get you from the 4th to the 6th tee, instead of 150+ yards away from it.


[I left the last snippet in just for giggles]

[Adrian_Stiff]

The Old 5th was a pretty crap hole IMO, in fact 13 is still pretty crap and 17 is not that great either, looks great from air, but you just see a flagstick and sky from the tee. Two of the Par 3 holes were very average, not seen the new 5th but it looks like it is now a great hole...the first is not great, 3, 11 is just ok, 15 average, but those other 8 holes along the shore certainly make it great.

[Mark_Fine]

Archie,
It was a bland blind hole and nothing inspiring about it at all.  I have played the new one at least 20 times it has grown on me.  It requires a precise golf shot but there is a run up option.  Nicklaus did a good job. It fits in well. 


Tom,
You know what I mean by a transition hole 😊.  For those who don’t, sometimes architects used par three holes almost as a filler hole because they needed that hole to complete the routing that they wanted allowing them to keep other holes that were much better.  That par three hole provided a golf transition from one hole to the other rather than just a long walk.  In my opinion that is what the old 5th at Pebble did.  Again it was the worst hole on the golf course. 

[Pat Burke]

I played a number of tournaments on the old number 5 and have only played the new one in recreational golf


The old number 5 was claustrophobic and the green was pretty severe (tournament speeds).  It was a very important shot to get the distance correct as long was a nightmare up and down. and the front bunker wasn’t much better. 
It was weird and not particularly great, but I liked it. 


The new hole location is stunning of course.
And I do t think the hole is bad at all, but the first time I saw it, i just felt like it was a nice par three


The new Hole makes sense but I kinda miss the old weird one

[William_G]

No. The trees weren't that close together and the green was flat. I will take the ocean hole 5th ten out of ten times.

The green was NOT flat.  It was pretty steep back to front.  Being over the back was almost an impossible up and down, in my memory of playing it 10-15 times in my teens and 20's.  It wasn't a great hole, but possibly harder than the present one.

hard to believe anyone would have taken a photo of that hole as it was a connector


TD, how would you have routed it? Haven't thought about it much since Schwab helped with that.


yet that green was not flat, it was featureless/no contours but flat back to front slope

[archie_struthers]

 




Knew I wasn't alone in my memory of the 5th at Pebble. Thanks to Pat for chiming in ! Given my memory of the hole and even the shot I hit there in 1992 makes me think that there was (as Gandalf would say )  more to this one than meets the eye. I distinctly remember the caddie looking at me after I hit the shot with a little more respect than before even though I was a couple under at the time. So it must have been a little tougher than it appeared.


Also as Pat reiterated the shot was quite tight and perhaps the trees were overgrown back in 1992 but it wasn't a gimme to hit it on by any means. Also given my penchant for quirk these days it's right up my alley!






p.s.  Pat did you spend any time at Adios GC in Fla in the mid 80's ?

[William_G]

Knew I wasn't alone in my memory of the 5th at Pebble. Thanks to Pat for chiming in ! Given my memory of the hole and even the shot I hit there in 1992 makes me think that there was (as Gandalf would say )  more to this one than meets the eye. I distinctly remember the caddie looking at me after I hit the shot with a little more respect than before, even though I was a couple under at the time. So it must have been a little tougher than it appeared.


Also as Pat reiterated the shot was quite tight and perhaps the trees were overgrown back in 1992 but it wasn't a gimme to hit it on by any means. Also given my penchant for quirk these days it's right up my alley!

tough hole, especially when dry as the bounce off the green was no bueno, very narrow shot, blind, advantage to players like Nicklaus and Norman, high ball flight

[Pat Burke]

Knew I wasn't alone in my memory of the 5th at Pebble. Thanks to Pat for chiming in ! Given my memory of the hole and even the shot I hit there in 1992 makes me think that there was (as Gandalf would say )  more to this one than meets the eye. I distinctly remember the caddie looking at me after I hit the shot with a little more respect than before even though I was a couple under at the time. So it must have been a little tougher than it appeared.


Also as Pat reiterated the shot was quite tight and perhaps the trees were overgrown back in 1992 but it wasn't a gimme to hit it on by any means. Also given my penchant for quirk these days it's right up my alley!






p.s.  Pat did you spend any time at Adios GC in Fla in the mid 80's ?

No
My dad and older brother had a friend/member and they played there a bit. My. Brother loved Adios!

[JESII]

Two questions, having played the new hole in 1999 and never the old (but greatly appreciate Matthews picture), would anyone rate the current 5th in the top half of holes at PB?

[Pat Burke]

I’d put it in the middle probably.
But I’m a weird one on these things!
In no order I’d put
3,4,6,7,8,9,10,16,17,18
Ahead of it probably.
Maybe others. Maybe not.
But I’m with same woman since 1981
Miss the original Deal GC I grew up on


So I don’t like change
But I don’t think the new 5 is bad either.
I’m a Pebble fan and love the setting of it too

[Michael Robin]

If you can track it down, there is good video of the old 5th from the final round of the ‘82 US Open that Watson won, specifically when Nicklaus is going on his big run on the front side, he hits I think 6 iron about 2 ft on that hole, which helps him on his run of 5 birdies in a row from 3-7 on the front side.


I will say, it was a scary shot, indeed narrow thru the trees and 2 clubs uphill. Wind would swirl in there too in the afternoon and knock down shots into the bunker. Green was higher on the right side and sorta boomeranged around the bunker to the front left of the green. If you were over the green right, which was kind of the miss, you always had a very quick chip, especially to the front left pin. Easy to chip it off the green in that direction as the slope at the front of that left side really fell off. Actually, I think I putted it off the green once back right to front left after being warned by my caddie that that was possible.

[Josh Bills]

Here is a 1971 aerial of the hole.  That chute looks awful narrow off the tee for sure.

[Josh Bills]

Here it is from 1961 as well.  Slightly cleaner view, but still very narrow. 

[archie_struthers]

 




thanks Josh ...nice stuff