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Michael Wolf

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Book Exchange
« on: March 30, 2020, 03:08:49 PM »
A thread for exchanging information on GCA adjacent golf books...not strictly a swap thread, but also to share information on what old books or subject matter you're looking to purchase, borrow or find a piece of information from. Plus updates on new releases - particularly offerings with planned smaller print runs which aren't advertised or sold through mainstream channels.


I haven't been able to find a similar recent thread? And I thought the timing of a new thread was right for several reasons:


1) Lots of interesting clubs and golf courses are approaching their 100th anniversaries


2) Resources like the USGA and intra- and inter-system library loan programs remain dramatically underutilized


3) Newer podcast and websites options like the Fried Egg and Feed the Ball are helping to generate gca interest among a new generation of golfers. But there are many newcomers who are unaware of their options for finding useful books. I've seen a disturbing number of volumes listed on Amazon, Abe and auction sites at 3x and even 5x their list prices despite still being available directly from the author or issuing club.


4) Some veteran GCA book collectors may have books that wouldn't command high selling prices, but that the owner would still like to see eventually end up in the hands of readers who'd appreciate them


4) Maybe just maybe it'll encourage a few on this thread to put pen to paper on subjects where they hold unique knowledge


Feedback welcomed


Michael Wolf

Michael Wolf

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2020, 03:27:29 PM »
Since I've created the thread, I'll go first.


Looking for:
(I know these exist)
Sand Hills club history with the brown cover
Naruo club history (any year even if in Japanese)
Holston Hills club history
CC of Mobile club history
Southhampton club history
The Jockey Club history


(not sure about these)
The Links (golf, not Manhattan social)
Kington
Liphook
Huntercomb - updated by a GCA poster that there is a club history
Morfontaine
Kennemer - updated that there is a history, although it's embedded in a larger book on Dutch golf
Falsterboro


(I don't think any of these exist)
Crystal Downs - updated by Tom Doak that there is a centenary effort in the works
Cal Club
Meadow Club - nothing per Sean Tully


(I'd also be happy to just borrow)
Any books which prominently feature:
Alison in Japan
golf in Mississippi
any pictures or writings on Tom Simpson's needlepoint hobby


Thanks.
I can be reached directly at MichaelWolfBearcat@yahoo.com
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 03:34:06 PM by Michael Wolf »

Tom_Doak

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2020, 03:47:13 PM »
Michael:


I believe that someone is working on a history of Crystal Downs, for the centenary of the place.  [Not the completion of Mackenzie's course, but the founding of the club, which was 1925 or '26.]


I am 99.999% sure that there is no club history of the old Links Golf Club on Long Island.  They wouldn't even let anyone take pictures of the place!  And by the time they got past their 50th year, the membership was already starting to dwindle as the older guys passed away.


I would also be surprised if there was a club history of Kington.  Until Sean A started to write about it, I don't think they took themselves very seriously!

Michael Wolf

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2020, 04:18:19 PM »
Thanks Tom,


Great to hear Crystal Downs is going to finally have a proper club history. And the timing is nice with Fred Muller and some of the other longtime employees and members around to contribute.


Michael

Colin Sheehan

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2020, 04:18:55 PM »
There is a brief four-page chapter in the back of the history of The Links (NYC) by Edgeworth/ de St. Jorre (2004) about its relationship with the club on Long Island. It provides some insight into the similarities in name and membership but that they were two entirely separate clubs..."membership in one never bestowed membership in the other."


The chapter mentions the lunch was a big deal and in the spring the sorrel soup was one of its signature dishes.

Michael Wolf

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2020, 04:32:22 PM »
There is a larger Edgeworth/ de St. Jorre effort that was published in 2017 that covers The Links (NYC) centennial and goes in depth on the its recovery from the 2006 explosion. But the book is largely focused on the Links art collection and floorplan. Much of the artwork is golf themed, but there's nothing new on it's early relationship with its namesake golf course. One interesting photo on page 14/15 of Macdonald and 30 or so Links members posing in front of what looks like a building on the golf course.


Michael
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 04:34:16 PM by Michael Wolf »

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2020, 05:03:09 PM »
Who is doing the history of golfclubatlas.com? ::)
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Michael Wolf

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2020, 05:36:12 PM »
Who is doing the history of golfclubatlas.com? ::)


Stephen King

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2020, 06:47:59 PM »
I just finished going through the Golfers' Guide of 1908, a hard to find early golf guide that includes a listing of all of the clubs in the US at that time.  Other than a few rare book collections at libraries, I haven't seen anywhere where you can access this work.


If anyone has any questions they think the guide might be able to shed some light on, please don't hesitate to contact me.  The listing wasn't very comprehensive, but does include locations and officers and for many of the courses the number of holes, yardage and who the professional was.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Tim_Cronin

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2020, 06:51:51 PM »
Who is doing the history of golfclubatlas.com? ::)


Stephen King


The movie will be great!
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Greg Hohman

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2020, 07:55:59 PM »
Michael,

Kennemer interests me too. If Ran wrote the 2007 profile, he might know if a club history exists.

greg
newmonumentsgc.com

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2020, 09:55:11 AM »
https://www.thelinksclub.org/guests


Fascinating. Anyone have a GPStimate on where the course was on LI?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

BCrosby

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2020, 12:19:51 PM »
There isn't, to my knowledge, a reliable listing of club histories. The USGA and others have large collections, but they have only a rough idea of what they don't have. And what they know they don't have are often older, rare, expensive books that don't come on the market often. (Some of the harder to find histories have taken on a mythic aura. The first history of Myopia Hunt (I've forgotten the author's name) come to mind. DM me if you happen to have a copy. :) )


The Library of Congress's collection benefits from the fact that the US Copyright Office operates there. To register a copyright on a book it is usually easiest to send a copy to the LC, get an ISBN number and the copyright is publicly registered. Commercial publishers will normally do that. (Note, registration notifies the world that an item is under copyright. Copyright and the bundle of right that go with it, at least in the US, arises when a book is written.)  But even then the LC can't be sure about what books it doesn't have. Many are never registered.


Club histories fall into that crack. They are copyrighted 'naturally,' but, I would guess, relatively few of their copyrights are registered. Which why we can't look to the LC to have a complete listing of them in its catalog.


I am open to ideas how to get a handle on what club histories are out there. The only way I can think of to develop a reliable list would be for an organization (the USGA?) to appeal to clubs and golf associations for information on books written about their courses, with the request that, if available, that they send a copy of those books for the USGA library for preservation and use by researchers or other interested persons. That's not going to fill in all the gaps, but would be a start.


Bob     


 
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 12:22:44 PM by BCrosby »

Tom_Doak

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2020, 01:59:43 PM »


The Library of Congress's collection benefits from the fact that the US Copyright Office operates there. To register a copyright on a book it is usually easiest to send a copy to the LC, get an ISBN number and the copyright is publicly registered. Commercial publishers will normally do that. (Note, registration notifies the world that an item is under copyright. Copyright and the bundle of right that go with it, at least in the US, arises when a book is written.)  But even then the LC can't be sure about what books it doesn't have. Many are never registered.



Yes, you only need an ISBN number if you are going to sell the book through bookshops, etc.  If you sell them yourself, it isn't required -- but you can still copyright them just by making the required mark, it does not need to be registered.


I did put an ISBN number on new volumes of The Confidential Guide, but I don't think I will for my latest book.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2020, 02:06:33 PM »
https://www.thelinksclub.org/guests


Fascinating. Anyone have a GPStimate on where the course was on LI?


Ronald:


I played the course in 1985, I think I was one of the last.


The longitude and latitude of the site are  40 deg 46' 01.73" N  by 73 deg 40' 31.25" W


It's now a development called The Links at North Hills.  There's no trace of the course left, it's all houses now.  Sadly, the Google Earth time machine only goes back to 1994, and they were just finishing plowing it under then.  The oldest picture shows one forlorn leftover bunker on the far west end of the site -- I think that was the 15th hole.

Colin Sheehan

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2020, 02:36:06 PM »
Here's an aerial what it looks like now.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UtyZdtubhKerHKHY7


And here's what it was in its glory. Thanks to Craig Disher for this one.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LTHX2oorQ6ZNhTRd8




Sven Nilsen

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2020, 03:05:17 PM »
Here's an old thread with the slides that Tom took during his last visit:


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57728.msg1349693.html#msg1349693
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Addison King

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2020, 11:29:53 PM »
Does a club history of The Creek Club exist?

Michael Wolf

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2020, 12:30:10 AM »
I have a copy of The Creek's 75th anniversary book A Pause Along The Way 1923-1998 by William Quinn. The edition I own isn't numbered, but based on how few copies seem to find there was into the secondary market, I'd guess they were printed in small numbers and sold/given only to members and employees.


It's a pretty decent book that includes the clubs early history, and a nice 14th chapter on the work Doak and Hanse had began in 1992 to reverse many of the decisions made during the decades when Joe Dey held sway over important club decisions.


Unfortunately, it does not include a hole by hole tour of the golf course. And the book only has two written pages and one page of pictures covering The Creek's ties with Women's National Golf and Tennis Club.


Please let me know if I can provide any more information.


Fingers crossed there will be a 100th anniversary offering from the gold coast mainstay.


Michael

Michael Wolf

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2020, 12:56:29 AM »

I am open to ideas how to get a handle on what club histories are out there. The only way I can think of to develop a reliable list would be for an organization (the USGA?) to appeal to clubs and golf associations for information on books written about their courses, with the request that, if available, that they send a copy of those books for the USGA library for preservation and use by researchers or other interested persons. That's not going to fill in all the gaps, but would be a start.


Bob   


The Hurdzan & Cornish annotated bibliography seems like the definitive listing of pre 1990 golf course architecture and maintenance  themed books?


Would Alastair Johnson's bibliographies be organized with club histories in their own section? (I can't bring myself to pay $200 for a book that just lists other golf books). Otherwise I'm in agreement that the USGA collection would be the best starting point.


Bob - not sure how much you're allowed to reveal, but do books need to be printed in minimum quantities or be offered for public sale to be eligible for the Herbert Wind prize? Are there lists available of which club histories have been submitted for consideration over the years?


Thanks, Michael




Tom_Doak

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2020, 01:31:16 AM »
I have a copy of The Creek's 75th anniversary book A Pause Along The Way 1923-1998 by William Quinn.


Are you sure that's not William Quirin?


Bill Quirin has done histories for several Long Island clubs.  He was also a member of Garden City Golf Club.

BCrosby

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2020, 08:58:31 AM »
Michael -


I think a catalog exists of Alastair Johnson's collection. I've not seen it and do not know if he has a separate category for club histories.


To qualify for the HWW award, a book must 1. be about the history of golf and 2. be commercially available. There are no length minimums or maximums. The reason for the second rule is to exclude club histories (a few won in the past) that are available only to club members or that can be bought only at the club. There have been some great club histories published over the last several years, but if their distribution is limited they defeat one of the main purposes of the award.


Bob       

Scott McWethy

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2020, 12:38:57 PM »

I believe that is one in the same Tom.  I have several of the club histories he has written.  The Creek Club book is wonderful.  Great history and mine has a breakdown of all the 18 holes on the course with some very good photography.  There are plenty of copies available on the book sites, but they're a bit pricey.

I have a copy of The Creek's 75th anniversary book A Pause Along The Way 1923-1998 by William Quinn.


Are you sure that's not William Quirin?


Bill Quirin has done histories for several Long Island clubs.  He was also a member of Garden City Golf Club.

Michael Wolf

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2020, 08:26:25 PM »
Scott is correct - Mr Quirin's The Creek 75th book does have a color photo and brief description of each hole towards the back. I overlooked it last night because for some reason it's not included in the table of contents.


Which search engines do you fans of GCA books typically utilize? I find Abe has the largest selection of golf themed books, but also a very finicky search engine when trying to locate books where I don't know the author's name, or when the name of the golf course or architects name isn't in the title of the book.


Thanks,
Michael

Michael Wolf

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Re: Book Exchange
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2020, 07:34:08 PM »
Began paging through the centennial history book for Banff Springs GC this afternoon, and was surprised to spot the National Golf Review's 1939 listing of top 100 golf courses, reprinted in all its glory on pages 98 & 99 of the 2011 Banff book.


Michael