Bunker changes at Bandon Dunes

[Sven Nilsen]

Its been about a year since Joe Hancock packed up his tools and moved on to other work.  Surprisingly, there hasn't been any discussion on this site about the changes made.


Who has seen the course since the following was done (while supposedly every bunker was reworked, these are the major changes)?


-New bunkers fronting the 2nd green
-Waste area in front of 3rd fairway cleared out and extended into the hill
-Aiming bunker in 4th fairway enlarged
-Pot bunker on the front left side of the 6th enlarged to serve as a cliffside catchers mitt
-Most of the right side bunkers on 8 eliminated and new center line bunker added in the landing zone
-New bunker added to pinch the right side on the drive on 9
-Old scar bunker on the front right of 14 green made larger
-Devil's A$$hole on 15 moved to the right and made smaller
-Sand exposed on the face of the carry ridge on 16


These changes followed some minor alterations made a couple of years ago including removing one of the fairway bunkers on 11 and the small bunker in the fairway on 17.


What do you think?


As an aside, can anyone name the two holes on property without a formal bunker?

[JLahrman]

As an aside, can anyone name the two holes on property without a formal bunker?

13 has got to be one of them, though that might be a trap.


And...7?

[Sven Nilsen]

As an aside, can anyone name the two holes on property without a formal bunker?

13 has got to be one of them, though that might be a trap.


And...7?

13 is correct.  7 has a couple hidden in the left rough right where the fairway opens up.


Clue was "on property," although I'm not counting the Preserve (pretty sure every hole has a bunker), Shorties or the Sheep Ranch.

[JLahrman]

OH, on property. I missed that. Hell I don't know. Man I thought I had a good chance with BD#7 though.


Only other guess is Trails #11. Maybe that scrub area down the right isn't considered a "formal" bunker? If that's not right I throw in the towel.

[Pete_Pittock]

Pacific 9? Trails 2

[Sven Nilsen]

There are bunkers off both the lower and upper greens on 9 at Pac.  Trails 2 is almost surrounded by bunkers.

[Pete_Pittock]

Sven, I forgot about the back bunker on Trails 2, but I always though the right side was an informal bunker. Did an aerial search and couldn't find the hole other than PD 13. Off to the yardage books.


As to the enlargement of the pot on BD 6, previously it was reduced in size because of cliff sloughing off. I assume most of the work was done with the upcoming(?) US Amateur in mind. Like 16. I assume the bunker removed on 17 was not in the original work.
4 and 15 would have to see the work to appropriately comment. Will channel Bill McBride to see what he thinks of the work on 2 or 3

[JLahrman]

I found the second bunkerless hole but I had to look it up so I won't give away the answer. It's not a hole that jumped to mind as a candidate.

[Kalen Braley]

The other one looks to be Pac Dunes #10. 


Edit:  I looked on Google Maps! 

[Tom_Doak]

I haven't been back to the resort for any quality time in the past three years - but if I had, I would not have spent any of that time on the first 18!

[Ira Fishman]

I haven't been back to the resort for any quality time in the past three years - but if I had, I would not have spent any of that time on the first 18!

Tom,


I will readily concede that I played each of the courses at Bandon only once and that the “first 18” ranked last for me. But not by much versus Old Mac. Both BT and PD are in a special league with BT being my choice for top course there.


Having said that about my preferences, you gave BD a 7 and BT and Old Mac 8s. I fully realize that the Doak Scale is not linear, but a 7 does mean playing if you are within a 100 miles. I would definitely play BD if I have the good fortune to make it to Bandon again.


I also am quite sure that you either will ignore this post or find a way to denigrate it.


Ira

[Joel_Stewart]

I believe it's safe to say that Bandon Dunes has had the most tinkering of any of the courses at Bandon.


Trails had to modify the 18th and 14th holes but I'm not sure of anything else? Has Pacific Dunes had any modifications done?

[Joe Hancock]

I haven't been back to the resort for any quality time in the past three years - but if I had, I would not have spent any of that time on the first 18!

If you find yourself back at the resort for some non-quality time, would you mind taking a peek? Sheesh....

[Pete_Pittock]

Sven
On PD8 as I read it they keep all the carpet-bomb bunkers and eliminated the ones closer to the green on the right edge of the fairway.

[William_G]

I haven't been back to the resort for any quality time in the past three years - but if I had, I would not have spent any of that time on the first 18!

nothing better than someone who would choose being an everlasting Ahole over saying nothing when nothing good would be said, til death for sure

[William_G]

I believe it's safe to say that Bandon Dunes has had the most tinkering of any of the courses at Bandon.


Trails had to modify the 18th and 14th holes but I'm not sure of anything else? Has Pacific Dunes had any modifications done?

LOL


all holes tuned up, maybe except #1, but no more back tee box used there, and 3, 6-13, 17 all good as was and is
2 bunkers modified
4 trees removed all down the right
5 all trees removed fronting the green
14 bunkers modified, landing area redone, trees removed etc..
15 green redone to soften the slope
16 green redone to soften the slope
18 fairway all lowered, and green redone to soften the slope


cheers

[Sven Nilsen]

Sven
On PD8 as I read it they keep all the carpet-bomb bunkers and eliminated the ones closer to the green on the right edge of the fairway.

Kind of the opposite on the right side.  They kept the two closer to the green and took out the ones closer to the tee.  The two short left side fairway bunkers are still there, meaning they have to be carried to get to the left half of the fairway.  They also expanded the bunkers on the front right of the green.


It now gives short hitters the option to play up the right side, leaving what some think to be a better angle into the green, especially for those who don't play the aerial game.


They added a large bunker right in the middle of the fairway at around 240 from the green tees. 


I'm not a big fan of the new 240 bunker.  As one of the most exposed crosswind holes, there was a reason for a big wide fairway. 

[Sven Nilsen]

I haven't been back to the resort for any quality time in the past three years - but if I had, I would not have spent any of that time on the first 18!

I am befuddled as to what value this type of statement has in your mind.  It certainly does nothing to further this conversation.

[Sven Nilsen]

The other one looks to be Pac Dunes #10. 


Edit:  I looked on Google Maps! 

This is correct.

[Eric Smith]

I haven't been back to the resort for any quality time in the past three years - but if I had, I would not have spent any of that time on the first 18!

If you find yourself back at the resort for some non-quality time, would you mind taking a peek? Sheesh....

I must say it is nauseating to have to read that post, Joe. Not yours (obviously). Hope you and Ms Trixie are well.

[Sven Nilsen]

I assume most of the work was done with the upcoming(?) US Amateur in mind.


You would think so, but the party line was this was just standard bunker upkeep.  Some of the changes won't effect the ams in any way.  In fact, you could argue that a few of the new bunkers only serve to punish the weakest hitters (9 being a prime example).



assume the bunker removed on 17 was not in the original work.


This bunker was removed a couple of years ago.  One of a series of changes to make the course more user friendly, which seems to run counter to the idea of toughening it up for the am.

4 and 15 would have to see the work to appropriately comment.


4 isn't a big change.  15 altered an iconic feature and pretty much took it out of play.  We see very few balls in the bunker these days.


Will channel Bill McBride to see what he thinks of the work on 2 or 3


In my mind 2 was poor design.  On an uphill hole, the types of shots that are finding the new left bunker are low tee balls or pulls into the north wind that get knocked down.  More often than not these shots get buried in the soft sand (it is also one of the hardest bunkers on the course to extricate from).  It also happens to be lined up almost directly on line with the approach angle from the senior tees, just the kind of player that hits a lower ball. 

Previously anything that missed would usually end up at the base of the fairway hillside over there.  You had a tight lie with an uphill chip, bunt or putt, but at least you weren't plugged in a bunker well below a fairly high lip.

The changes on 3 make it easier to find and play your ball if you don't make it to the fairway.

[JC Jones]

I haven't been back to the resort for any quality time in the past three years - but if I had, I would not have spent any of that time on the first 18!

I am befuddled as to what value this type of statement has in your mind.  It certainly does nothing to further this conversation.

Its just ego protection.  Insecurity is a powerful drug.

[Ronald Montesano]

These last three years of a presidency have taught me to examine all sides of a statement, before judging. That way, I leap less.


If there were bad blood (and I'm not saying that there is) between architects, one would not tend toward visiting the other's work.


We value honesty hear. I don't doubt that, if Mr. David Kidd wished to join, Ran would allow him space, and he could respond.


A simple "Could you elaborate, Mr. Doak?" might be more likely to elicit a response.


I think that Ira might have received something, had he not concluded with his snappy exit statement.


Lots of potential in this thread. I hope that Mr. Doak does elaborate, and that it foments continued, proper discussion to advance the thread topic.


I would think that an untested architect's first, major work would be the most likely candidate for enhancement.


I'll leave you with this question: How would you rank the terrain/property of the first four courses? Never mind the layouts. Which of the four courses has the best land; which the 2nd best, and so forth? I'll unplug and read.

[JC Jones]

Ron,


Since Tom is using other threads to respond to this one, I doubt you'll see any participation here.  Nonetheless, you're overlooking the critical point here: Tom's post was totally unsolicited, and he had no legitimate reason for the post.  That's why you're seeing frustration.


Sven asked a general question as to who has seen the work and what do they think?  How does Tom's post answer that question?


On the other thread, Tom used the defense of it being unlikely Kidd spends much time playing Old Mac.


While that may be so, the difference is Kidd isnt posting unsolicitedly on the internet that he avoids Old Mac.  Tom has a great mind for architecture and I'd love to hear his hole by hole thoughts on Bandon Dunes.  Its the passing shots meant to discount the work of his competitors that are always so nauseating.


Here's to hoping you have a kid under 17 so you can offset the purchase of Tom's new book (marketed here on GCA) with your stimulus check!  My hope for a book on PacDunes and the routing of the course is going on 17 years!

[Sean_A]

I haven't been back to the resort for any quality time in the past three years - but if I had, I would not have spent any of that time on the first 18!

I am befuddled as to what value this type of statement has in your mind.  It certainly does nothing to further this conversation.

Its just ego protection.  Insecurity is a powerful drug.

Interesting. This wasn't my take when reading Doak's comments. I assumed there was a degree of humour intended in that he would be playing his own courses over the work of guy he squabbled with. Maybe I am wrong, but I can hear that goofy laugh after these comments were made.

Folks say they praise and want honesty, but often times only if delivered with champaign.

One of the great aspects of podcasts is we gain a much better sense of who people are than is usually possible via written comments/interviews.

Ciao