Eclectic 18 - Buda course version - all 18 holes now posted

[Mark Pearce]

Yes, Ben, I did, all 110 yards.  To be fair, we had a club pro in our group and he hit utility.  It was howling that day.

[Ben Stephens]

Yes, Ben, I did, all 110 yards.  To be fair, we had a club pro in our group and he hit utility.  It was howling that day.

I remember that as I was in the group behind and also used a long iron which barely reached 120 yds. Wasn't it the same day that you needed an hard hat playing in front  [size=78%] Silloth is a great course and proves that you don't need that many sand bunkers [/size]

[mike_malone]

At Goswick it wasn’t so much the velocity of the wind as the direction for a drop shot that hung in the air so long. Fantastic fun it was.

[Mark Pearce]

At Goswick it wasn’t so much the velocity of the wind as the direction for a drop shot that hung in the air so long. Fantastic fun it was.

We were lucky.  In a head wind 15 is playable.  Downwind it takes a brilliant shot to hit that green and hold it.  Most settle for trying to land something short left and hope it comes down the hill and holds the green.

[John Mayhugh]

Those numbers for Kilmore #9 are the same as my scorecard, but according to my scorecard the numbers are in meters.  You'd have to add 10% to convert to yards.

If you were playing the yardage book numbers as yards, you probably came up short a lot.   

No doubt I came up short a lot, but while I was there I was aware of the difference. I did forget it when looking back.

My memory isn't great. I remembered the tee shot and green site, but no idea of how the hole played length wise. I tried looking at yardage on google earth, but clearly messed that up as well.

[John Mayhugh]

Thanks, Clyde.

I'm happy to have a good excuse to return to Alwoodley.

[Michael Whitaker]

The wind one day made that almost unplayable but fun.

Which one?  Both at Silloth and Goswick we had plenty of wind....

Mark - here is a link to a video taken on the 9th at Silloth during during Buda X showing that massive wind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgiqXeYMEus. Guys were trying to hit 3-irons (or up to drivers!) on that 121yd hole!

[Mark Pearce]

Is that the Butcher in the dark blue sweater?  3 iron was hopelessly optimistic!

[Michael Whitaker]

Is that the Butcher in the dark blue sweater?  3 iron was hopelessly optimistic!

Yes! That is absolutely the Butcher. He is now a cyclist extraordinaire I understand. 

[Mark Pearce]

Is that the Butcher in the dark blue sweater?  3 iron was hopelessly optimistic!

Yes! That is absolutely the Butcher. He is now a cyclist extraordinaire I understand.

You understand correctly.  I was in touch with him a few weeks back for advice on buying a new bike.

[Michael Whitaker]

Is that the Butcher in the dark blue sweater?  3 iron was hopelessly optimistic!

Yes! That is absolutely the Butcher. He is now a cyclist extraordinaire I understand.

You understand correctly.  I was in touch with him a few weeks back for advice on buying a new bike.

You aren’t joining the spandex and Alien helmet crowd are you? That is a scary image!

[Mark Pearce]

Is that the Butcher in the dark blue sweater?  3 iron was hopelessly optimistic!

Yes! That is absolutely the Butcher. He is now a cyclist extraordinaire I understand.

You understand correctly.  I was in touch with him a few weeks back for advice on buying a new bike.

You aren’t joining the spandex and Alien helmet crowd are you? That is a scary image!

Too late. Mike.  I have the entire spandex wardrobe, the Strava subscription and am just about to buy a bike worth more than my golf clubs.  I have no intention, however, of missing a BUDA, so rest easy.

[John Mayhugh]

 HOLE 16
Royal Cinque Ports (Deal)
Par 5*, 473 yards
 
Since it’s my thread, I’m taking a bit of license and keeping Deal’s 16^th as a par 5. That was the par when I last played it, before the par was changed along with some fairway extension. The below hole map is from my 2009 Stroke Saver, while the aerial is the most recent from Google Earth.
 
Also note some of the bunker style changes shown in the aerial. As I’ve not seen them in person, I’ll try to refrain from comment. I’m sure that it’s still a terrific hole, but I believe the old half par approach was likely better.
 
deal 16 map by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
deal 16 aerial by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
From the tee, the view is dominated by an old WWII pillbox off to the right.
 
deal 16 t by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
deal 16 pillbox from f by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
Of course, I ventured in for a look around and back out at the fairway.
 
deal 16 from pillbox by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
 
Great fairway movement means a lot of randomness with lies to impact a long shot at the green.
 
deal 16 f 2 by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
The fairway does have some flatter spots as you get nearer to the green. You can just make out the flag on the right at the top of the large hill. 
 
deal 16 f4 by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
Being just short of the green leaves a very challenging up and down.
 
deal 16 a2 by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
I found the green difficult to photograph, but the challenge to the show doesn’t end here. It’s wild. Ran has a very good photo in his profile.
 
deal 16 g from 17 by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
https://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/england/deal1/deal000263/
 
 
WWII defenses aren’t the only historical relic at the course. How about a Roman road crossing in front of the 11^th green?
 
deal 11 f roman road by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
My first Buda was at Deal, and it’s no exaggeration to say that I made some life long friends thanks to that trip. Deal is a terrific club with a course to match. There can be few better places to have a drink and wait for matches to come in than the clubhouse balcony.
 
 
 
HOLE 17
Brora
Par 4, 438 yards
 
Somewhere I read a description of Brora as the course people visiting Scotland are dreaming about, even if they don’t realize it. Certainly it should not be missed by anyone venturing to Dornoch.
 
The 17^th is a difficult driving hole, with two fescue rough mounds splitting the fairway. There are also other distractions at times.
 
brora 17 map by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
brora 17 tee by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
The approach needs to thread between several well-sited bunkers
 
brora 17 appr by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
Unfortunately, I don’t have a photo of the green. It’s one of many outstanding greens at Brora. I should show at least one of them, so how about this view of the 1^st from the 18^th tee area?
 
brora 1gr by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
Sheep on the course is an enduring memory of Brora, and not a bad one. Accommodations must be made such as fenced off greens, fences around shelters, and even around the water fountain.
 
brora water by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
There is also a chance to watch some master bunker builders at work.
 
brora bunker project by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
Brora has been getting a lot of discussion recently in various social media, as the club has asked for support during their shutdown due to Covid-19. Small clubs like this get a lot of income from non-member play, and will be missing out on this during their closure and perhaps beyond that. Certainly a club worth supporting, and they offer several ways to do so.
 
https://broragolfclub.co.uk/
 
 
 
 
HOLE 18
Kington
Par 4, 279 yards
 
Even though Kington has not yet hosted a Buda, as soon as it does, the ideal finishing hole will be clear. It’s worth a look at their website to see all of the holes and to more fully appreciate this site. And, of course, there’s Sean Arble’s photo tour, which introduced me and many others to the wonders of this place.
 
https://www.kingtongolf.co.uk/course/course-overview/
 
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30926.0.html
 
 
The 18^th is only 279 yards and plays downhill over an old quarry. Distance isn’t the most important thing here. The fairway slopes steeply from left to right, with a very narrow green benched into the slope. The green is next to the clubhouse, and it’s fun to watch various ways people screw up this hole.
 
kington 18 aerial by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
kington18 tee by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
About halfway to the hole, one can see the perils.
 
kington 18 fwy by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
From just short of the green at the same level
 
kington 18 green front by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
And on the left above the hole. Note the lack of options if you end up here.
 
kington 18 green fwy left by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
A head on view at of the green.
 
kington 18 green fwy left by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
Missing right leaves you with a very difficult recovery.
 
kington 18 green below right by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
From behind the green, looking back towards the tee.
 
kington 18 green rear by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
 
Kington is on top of Bradnor Hill, and the fine views only add to the fun of the golf.
 
kington view by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
Hopefully Sean doesn’t mind, but this is my favorite photo of Kington, borrowed from his profile. Amazing the varied landscapes that we have for this game.
 
kington 13 appr arble by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
 
SECOND 9
Par 36, 3048 yards
 
COURSE
Par 72, 6216 yards
 
I found it surprising how conventional the par and yardage worked out to be. The yardage ends up longer than I would have expected given the sort of holes I enjoy.
 
Will have a follow up post with holes that I wish I could have used and some final thoughts.
 

[John Mayhugh]

 If you haven’t tried putting an eclectic course together, it’s a fun exercise, but lots of compromises to make. One of the ways to simplify the process is to select a few “must” holes. These were ones that I planned on using from the start:
 
3          Notts
4          St. Enodoc
6          Painswick
7          Pennard
10        Elie
13        Silloth
14        Dornoch
16        Deal
18        Kington
 
So with 9 automatic selections, I just had to find the other 9.
 
Unfortunately, I had to leave off four courses since there were not enough spots. These were holes I would have liked to use, but felt I had better options:
 
Enniscrone       3, 15
Dunstanburgh Castle    8, 4
Noordwijkse      8, 2
Lundin Links     6, 16
 
 
As mentioned elsewhere in the post, these are the Buda sites that I have not played, so no holes from them:
Hankley Common
Hoylake
Liphook
Littlestone
Perranporth
Wallasey
Welshpool (2020, hopefully)
 
 
Finally, a list of alternative holes that I would have been happy to use. Quite a few 6s & 14s.
Sandwich          16, 5
Hague              1, 6
Notts                13, 16
St. Enodoc        6, 14
Rye                  5, 4
Painswick         4, 10
Pennard            14, 16
Porthcawl         14, 9
Carne               1, 14
Elie                  13, 2
Alwoodley         8, 15
Golspie             9, 5
Silloth               3, 6
Dornoch           11, 6
Goswick           14, 17
Deal                 3, 12
Brora                9, 6
Kington             13, 12
 
 
Sean Arble made a good suggestion about my Alwoodley and Royal Porthcawl selections. I’m interested in other opinions and, ideally, someone else putting together their own 18.
 

[Sean_A]

Tucky

Its a fine effort and much appreciated.

I will try to do a quick pass and may revisit the choices. I only have four must choose holes because I am not going to count Kington or Welshpool.  I think both  would have been represented.

1. Your choice is Sandwich, I might try Hoylake...the proper start.  A stark opener, but one I highly respect.  Ya gotta have some holes which require the shots, so why not start with an example.

2.  Your choice is Hague, but I haven't been there so its out.  I always thought Carne's 2nd was a cool hole.  Its covers the sort of terrain I like the most, humpty bumpty without much elevation.  Perranporth's par 5 was tough to pass on. 

3.  Your choice is Notts and I like it, but I think I will use another hole from that course.  I will plop for Silloth.

4. St Enodoc is the only call to be made.  Great minds think alike.

5.  Your choice is Rye and its a good one, but I will use another hole from that course.  I am not totally convinced, but I am going with Perranporth.

6. Painswick is the only choice.  Although, I really like short holes at Brora & Perranporth and Elie's short par 4. 

7. Pennard is the only choice.

8. Your choice is Porthcawl, I am gonna go for Alwoodley.

9. Your choice is Carne Kilmore, I am going for Liphook. I simply cannot pass up that awesome blind approach.  Elie was tough to skip.

10. Your choice is Elie and I like it.  I need a short hole so its gotta be Moortown. Although, I like Deal's par 4 a ton. 

11. Your choice is Alwoodley.  This is where I flip the deck and choose Notts. 

12. Your choice is Golspie.  I am going for an outlier of a hole which I always loved...Sandwich.

13. Your choice is Silloth and it is a grand option.  I am gonna go for some funk, Rye.

14. Duh, Dornoch.

15. I will follow your lead and go with Goswick.  Although, its awfully tough to pass on Deal. 

16. I will follow your lead and go with Deal.  Although, Notts is very fine, same for Rye. 

17. I will follow your lead again and go with Brora. However, once again Deal is tough to pass on. 

18. Your choice is Kington, I disqualified it, so....I am going with Wallasey. Yet again though, Rye is tough to pass over. Lundin too is a fine finishing hole. 

Ciao

[David_Tepper]

John -

Excellent tour. Well done.

#17 at Brora is on the short list of the toughest par-4's I have ever played.

DT

[John Mayhugh]

Sean,

Thanks for that. I'm gratified that we agreed on 6 holes, and intrigued that 5 of the ones you used were from the courses I haven't seen.

Silloth 3 has a great greensite
Notts 11 might be the most memorable hole visually
Sandwich 12 is a terrific choice - you are a closet bunker fan
Rye 13 is also really a good one, but I gave it no consideration due to Silloth's par 5

[Mark Pearce]

I may have a try at this on Wednesday, when I'm "on holiday".  Interesting to see Sean go for 3 at Silloth and agree on St Enodoc.  Perhaps the only 4th I can think of that would give St Enodoc a run for its money from a BUDA course is Silloth's.  If I didn't love the 13th so much, the 4th at Silloth would be a must for me.

[Jason Topp]

Wonderful Tour John.  When we have travelled together you have always pointed out things that I would never have otherwise noticed.  During this downtime this is a nice way to relive some of those memories.

[John Mayhugh]

Wonderful Tour John.  When we have travelled together you have always pointed out things that I would never have otherwise noticed.  During this downtime this is a nice way to relive some of those memories.

You mean things like this?
P1000216 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

[Jason Topp]

Exactly!

[James Boon]

Great list John, and a welcome distraction. I'll go through in more detail and comment later, but my initial surprise is the 3rd at Notts (Hollinwell) Not that I've anything against it, just that I would probably have thought of quite a few others at Hollinwell ahead of that one for inclusion?


Stay safe!


Cheers,


James

[John Mayhugh]

James,
I think that the 3rd at Notts has a really interesting second shot, even if it may not appear so the first time you play the hole. That, and the road in play behind the green, make for a memorable and unique hole. I wouldn't say it's the best hole on the course, but that wasn't really my intent. 

[Sean_A]

Sean,

Thanks for that. I'm gratified that we agreed on 6 holes, and intrigued that 5 of the ones you used were from the courses I haven't seen.

Silloth 3 has a great greensite
Notts 11 might be the most memorable hole visually
Sandwich 12 is a terrific choice - you are a closet bunker fan
Rye 13 is also really a good one, but I gave it no consideration due to Silloth's par 5

Besides being visually arresting, 11 Notts has a terrific approach. Although, over time, 14 has become one of my favourite holes at Notts.

I admire 12 Sandwich a ton. The temptation to go right is a strong pull. Good green too.

Ciao

[Mike Sweeney]

John Mayhugh,


This thread seems to have gotten lost just as international travel was shutting down. Fabulous overview, thanks as always for your contributions.