Eclectic 18 - Buda course version - all 18 holes now posted

[John Mayhugh]

So, come on then, which 10th makes the cut?  We've been two whol days without an update.  We know it isn't St Enodoc (now that would be controversial).  It can't be Silloth (worst hole on the course).  You've got through the front 9 without a hole from Elie and the tenth in many ways sums Elie up (though it's far from the best hole IMHO)?

Sorry for the delay. Busy weekend. Will have three more holes by tonight.

[Mark Pearce]

So, come on then, which 10th makes the cut?  We've been two whol days without an update.  We know it isn't St Enodoc (now that would be controversial).  It can't be Silloth (worst hole on the course).  You've got through the front 9 without a hole from Elie and the tenth in many ways sums Elie up (though it's far from the best hole IMHO)?

Sorry for the delay. Busy weekend. Will have three more holes by tonight.

My day is complete....

[John Mayhugh]

 HOLE 10
The Golf House Club, Elie
Par 4, 288 yards
 
For me, the obvious 10^th hole had to come from Elie. Not because it’s the best hole on the course – there are quite a few that are architecturally better. But which hole would you like to play over and over and over? How about one where you have a blind tee shot over a big hill, and when you get to the top, you are rewarded with a view of the Firth of Forth and only then remember to see where your ball ended up?
 
It only takes a drive of 200ish yards to get to the top of the hill.
 
elie 10 map by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
elie 10 tee by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
From the top, it’s all downhill, including a green that slopes away from you. The carry probably only needs to be 220 or so to hit the green. It’s possible to go over the green and end up on the beach. Due to the steep nature of the hole, you DO NOT want to be left with a downill shot to the green. Note how much movement there is in the fairway in this drone photo (pinched from the Elie website).
 
elie 10 drone by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
elie 10 fwy by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
A view from the left.
 
elie 10 left rough by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
From behind the green, it’s easy to see how downhill the hole plays.
 
elie 10 gr rear by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
Don’t be deceived by the rough behind the green. A hard running ball needs a lot more friction to stop.
 
elie 10 gr rear bell by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
Bell ringing is not optional.
 
elie 10 bell by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
My first visit to Elie was on a whim after having played TOC earlier in the day. The course was practially deserted, and I ended up playing 36 holes beginning around 3pm, plus an extra two trips down the 10^th & 11^th. Huge fun trying to hit putts and chips from various spots on the hill, with very limited success.
 
 
A round at Elie starts out with a look from the periscope in the starter’s hut.
 
https://www.golfhouseclub.co.uk/the-course/the-periscope/
 
elie periscope by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
I would be remiss if I fail to mention that the enthusiastic ravings of Bill McBride about Elie provided the nudge I needed to go to my first Buda the next year. Bill was right about a lot of things, but none more so than the value of this event.
 
 
 
HOLE 11
Alwoodley Golf Club
Par 3, 166 yards
 
 
A very well defended green, made much more formidable by the tilt and contours. Would be great if there were less vegetation around, but as you can see from the photo in Sean’s profile, there have been changes since my visit. I feel that with Clyde Johnson working there now, we can expect further improvements.
 
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48951.msg1105392.html#msg1105392
 
 
alw 11 tee by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
 
A shame these photos don’t better show off the green complex.
alw 11 gr fr left by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
alw 11 green rear by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
This borrowed drone shot helps.
 
alw 11 drone by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
Terrific setting for the clubhouse, with the patio quite close to 18 green and the first tee.
 
alw home by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
Any visitor should be sure to go inside and check out the MacKenzie drawing.
 
alw mack by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
 
 
HOLE 12
Golspie Golf Club
Par 4, 341 yards
 
 
Visitors to Dornoch make a huge mistake in skipping places like Golspie & Brora. Golspie has an interesting mix of links and heathland type holes, and for the 12^th in this course I picked one of the heath holes.
 
golspie 12 map by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
 
This short par 4 isn’t a hole to relax on, thanks to a big right to left tilt of the fairway along with OOB all along the left side. Gorgeous setting with the brilliant yellow gorse which is thankfully out of play.
 
golspie 12 tee by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
 
Steering well clear of the out of bounds seems to make sense until you have a sidehill approach shot.
 
golspie 12 fwy by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
The green is well fronted by bunkers on both sides. The one in the front left surely gets a lot of visitors. My photo here is “ruined” by Steve Wilson, James Boon, & Niall Carlton.
 golspie 12 gr by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
This drone shot shows why the hole is named “Table.”
 
golspie 12 gr aerial by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
The green viewed from behind.
 
golspie 12 gr rear by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
This member’s playing partner got in a nap while his owner was probably inside settling bets and having a drink.
 
golspie dog by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 

[Mark Pearce]

Three excellent choices.  None the best hole on the course but all have something about them that makes you want to play them and something which speaks of the course.  12 at Golspie is perhaps the most surprising choice.  It's a hole that doesn't get talked about a lot, even in the context of Golspie but it's confounding.  An easy par on the card but requiring such precise play.

[John Mayhugh]

Confounding is a good way to describe the 12th.

[Sean_A]

I think if I was going to include Alwoodley, I would have used the 8th (perhaps the best hole on the course) as a par 5 rather than Porthcawl's 8th.  That said, its tough to find really good par 5s period.

Ciao     

[John Mayhugh]

I think if I was going to include Alwoodley, I would have used the 8th (perhaps the best hole on the course) as a par 5 rather than Porthcawl's 8th.  That said, its tough to find really good par 5s period.

Sean,
I could see switching to use Alwoodley's 8th and Porthcawl's 11th. Probably would be an overall improvement. No doubt there are others.

[David_Tepper]

John M. -

I like your pick of #12 at Golspie. Like the fairway, the green also tilts right to left. Balls hit from the fairway are typically going to have a tendency to drift to the left, which makes holding that green with your 2nd shot very tough. The tilt of the green can easily move the ball further to the left, off the side of the green and down the steep slope.

I also like that pic from behind the 12th green. It is a nice view of the inland portion of the course. In the spring, you get to see the gorse in bloom. In August, you get to see the purple heather in bloom. If you did not know better, you might think you were on one of the heathland courses in Surrey.

DT

[Mark Pearce]

David,


I think you could convincingly argue that the heathland part of Golspie is the strongest part of the course.  The 9th, in particular, is a great hole.


Mark

[David_Tepper]

Mark P. -

Yes, #9 at Golspie is a very good hole, as strong as any par-4 in the Highlands. I suggested to John M. earlier in this thread that #9 and #16 merit consideration for his Buda Eclectic 18.

While the inland/heathland holes (#8 thru #12) at Golspie are certainly the most distinct portion of the course, holes 4 thru 7 and 15 thru 18 are pretty good too.


DT


 

[Michael Whitaker]

Mark P. -

Yes, #9 at Golspie is a very good hole, as strong as any par-4 in the Highlands. I suggested to John M. earlier in this thread that #9 and #16 merit consideration for his Buda Eclectic 18.

While the inland/heathland holes (#8 thru #12) at Golspie are certainly the most distinct portion of the course, holes 4 thru 7 and 15 thru 18 are pretty good too.


DT

#16 is the "best" hole on the course! When one analyzes Golspie it is AMAZING how many outstanding holes there are on this course. If it were located anywhere with more foot traffic it would be extremely highly ranked. Many consider the varying genre of holes a drawback, but I think it is a bonus and gives the course unique style.

[John Mayhugh]

An interesting aspect to doing this sort of course - how many times the hole selected isn't the one I think best. It took a lot of juggling to use holes from 18 different courses. When I've posted every hole, I'll give a summary and share holes that I wanted to include but didn't.
Would also be interesting to see what sort of courses others come up with.

[John Mayhugh]

 HOLE 13
Silloth on Solway
Par 5, 468 yards
 
 
When I first started thinking about doing this course, there was no chance of any hole supplanting this one from Silloth. I’m not sure that it was universally loved by Buda participants, but certainly leaves an indelible impression on anyone who plays it.
 
Even though the hole is under 470 yards, the hole plays into the prevailing wind and the second shot is very uphill.
 
silloth 13 map by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
silloth 13 tee by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
For me, an excellent par 5 must have choices and consequences on the second shot. Silloth’s 13^th certainly does that. The preceding hole map doesn’t show how much the fairway narrows at the end. After a tee shot of 270 or so, the fairway narrows to a point. Into the wind – even with firm turf – a good tee shot could be quite a bit shorter.
 
The second shot has to carry to the top of the hill in front, and you can see that the fairway is narrow for the first part of that journey. Ideally, the second shot would be 100 yards from the green or closer. The hole is named Hogs Back for the shape of the upper fairway, and the player is advised to avoid the edges.
 
In a Buda foursomes match, I opted for a putter for our second shot due to the risk of getting the ball up into the howling wind. Strange seeming choice, but at least our third was from the fairway.
 
silloth 13 aerial by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
silloth 13 fairway by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
The hogs back nature continues with the bunkerless green complex. Any miss offers more challenge. Great use of the natural green site.
 
silloth 13 appr by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
The hole from behind.
 
silloth 13 green by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
One of my enduring memories of the Silloth Buda was the formal dinner at the club. We have enjoyed tremendous hospitality everywhere we have had Buda, but Silloth may have been the best. We might as well have been members that week.
 
silloth dinner by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
 
 
 
HOLE 14
Royal Dornoch
Par 4, 445 yards
 
 
Probably the most easily anticipated selection, the 14^th at Dornoch is rightly famous. The hole has terrific land for golf, and the restraint to resist bunkers is one of golf’s great design lessons. I really enjoyed this description of the merits of the hole from Lorne Smith.
https://finegolf.co.uk/2013/07/17/foxy-my-favourite-hole/
 
 
Just look at that land (borrowing Lorne’s “helicopter” photo).
 
dornoch 14 drone by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
The view from the tee provides more questions than answers.
 
dornoch 14 tee by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
 
Unfortunately, I don’t have a photo from the right side of the fairway. The approach is much more daunting there.
 
dornoch 14 appr by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
So much opportunity for an approach to go wrong.
 
dornoch 14 green by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
The incredible green viewed from near the next tee.
 
dornoch 14 green from left by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
 
One of the more memorable parts of playing Dornoch is this view looking back after a climb the old 7^th tee. It’s a much better memory than the Americans sitting next to our table at dinner explaining to the incredibly tolerant server how a salad is always served before a main....
 
dornoch 7 tee look back by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
HOLE 15
Goswick Golf Club
Par 3, 150 yards
 
 
After the fine 14^th, you arrive at the 15^th tee and should take the time to enjoy this view of Lindisfarne. I regret not taking time to go walk around the island and look for signs of the old Braid course.
 
goswick 15 view hi by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
https://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/index.php/england/north-east/northumberland/320-holy-island-golf-club-northumberland
 
 
The 15^th is a short, downhill hole with no shortage of trouble. If it’s not windy, the tee shot is much more comfortable. The green is sharply angled to the tee.
 
goswick 15 aerial by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
goswick 15 tee by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
 
This view from the left side shows the perils of being short.
 
goswick 15 left side by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
From the front right, it’s easy to see the punchbowl like contours of the front part of the green.
 
goswick 15 gr front rt by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
One more photo, this time from left rear. If you do miss this green, a bit of geometry is useful in playing the recovery.
 
goswck 15 gr left rear by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 
 
Goswick was a very friendly place. I so wanted to borrow one of these staff members for a round.
 
goswick shop staff by john mayhugh, on Flickr
 

[mike_malone]

The wind one day made that almost unplayable but fun.

[Mark Pearce]

The wind one day made that almost unplayable but fun.

Which one?  Both at Silloth and Goswick we had plenty of wind....


Great choices these three, John.  Given your one hole per course, keeping the number of hole rules, I think these may well be the 13-15 I would go for (no doubt at all with Silloth and Dornoch)

[Thomas Dai]

The 13th at Silloth was one of the holes I had in the back of my mind when I started the thread about fortifications - https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68160.0.html -


"The plotting like a military campaign of the best way through the countryside taking the fairest way, avoiding awkward, rough and hazardous terrain and outpost forts until the rampart like fortifications of the citadel is reached, scaled and ultimately conquered hopefully with sufficient strength remaining and enough ammunition still available for use to conquer numerous further citadels."


atb

[John Mayhugh]

Josh Bills shared this terrific photo of the 10th at Elie. Not sure of the year, but it's around 1900.
elie 10th green old by john mayhugh, on Flickr

 

[Mark Pearce]

That's a fantastic photo, thanks Josh!  Love the square edges.  Does look as if there may be a bit more rough between green and the rocks than there is now?

[Bryan Izatt]

John,


This is bringing back fond memories of many courses and friends.


Re the 9th from the Kilmore 9, the scorecard shows it as either 385 yards or 433 yards.  There's another tee further back at 450 yards. My recollection was that it played long despite being downhill, so I suspect we were playing the longer silver tees at 433 yards.  The nine was just over 3000 yards from the silver tees.


Re Foxy, here's a picture from the centre of the fairway that shows how the noses intrude into the line, especially for the right flag on this day (where the red sweater is).  Up closer to the noses is a daunting shot even from the fairway. The rough was brutal on this day in 2015.

[John Mayhugh]

Bryan,

I managed to find my yardage book from the Kilmore and it has 393 from the silver & 409 from the black. I wouldn't be surprised for the scorecard to be different. Either way, longer than the yardage that I used.

That's a nice Foxy pic. Tough hole location!

Glad this is bringing back some good memories. Has for me as well.

[mike_malone]

The wind one day made that almost unplayable but fun.

Which one?  Both at Silloth and Goswick we had plenty of wind....






Mark,


It was Goswick.


Great choices these three, John.  Given your one hole per course, keeping the number of hole rules, I think these may well be the 13-15 I would go for (no doubt at all with Silloth and Dornoch)

[Bryan Izatt]

John,


Those numbers for Kilmore #9 are the same as my scorecard, but according to my scorecard the numbers are in meters.  You'd have to add 10% to convert to yards.


If you were playing the yardage book numbers as yards, you probably came up short a lot.   

[Mark Pearce]

The wind one day made that almost unplayable but fun.

Which one?  Both at Silloth and Goswick we had plenty of wind....






Mark,


It was Goswick.


Great choices these three, John.  Given your one hole per course, keeping the number of hole rules, I think these may well be the 13-15 I would go for (no doubt at all with Silloth and Dornoch)

Yes, that was breezy.  Silloth was properly windy!

[Ben Stephens]

The wind one day made that almost unplayable but fun.

Which one?  Both at Silloth and Goswick we had plenty of wind....






Mark,


It was Goswick.


Great choices these three, John.  Given your one hole per course, keeping the number of hole rules, I think these may well be the 13-15 I would go for (no doubt at all with Silloth and Dornoch)

Yes, that was breezy.  Silloth was properly windy!

Mark,


Didn't you use a driver on the short par 3 9th at Silloth?? trying to keep the ball low 


Cheers
Ben

[Clyde Johnson]

Some fine choices there John!


I was particularly fond of your choices from St Enodoc, Painswick, Pennard, and Silloth.


There's been some good tree work at Alwoodley since those photos, mostly self-direct by the Head Greenkeeper and Green' Chair. More to come.


Looking forward to seeing how you finish...