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Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #775 on: April 24, 2020, 05:19:37 PM »
Michigan now has the green light to play golf.


+1 for the Midwest Mashie

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #776 on: April 24, 2020, 07:33:20 PM »
Seeing the coastal elite catching a breath of fresh air makes a Midwesterner proud.
If you or a family member gets sick, should the government be required to spend unlimited $ to get you well?


I have the exact same insurance as my employees. I still have a set of three custom Vokey wedges I ordered on Feb 22nd that I haven't hit. It's looking like Mother's Day will be my return to golf.
That means that you and most us have a max out of pocket per year (mine is $4k), which means that the insurance company's other policy holders shell out the difference.  Whether the government (future taxpayers) will bail out the health insurance is TBD.
At age 66, I cannot expect the health care system to make my potential (I and wife are fine) illness a priority over a younger person.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #777 on: April 24, 2020, 07:43:51 PM »
Michigan now has the green light to play golf.


+1 for the Midwest Mashie


At present, you can only play golf with members of your household, and not attend gatherings of more than ten people.  But I will try that out and report back.  😉

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #778 on: April 24, 2020, 07:46:09 PM »
Before anyone gets too excited about the Mashie or similar events, read the restrictions.  Makes large events very difficult.  May be relaxed over time but too soon to tell.  If golfers violate, strong restrictions will be put back in place.  Some golf is better than none, particularly if health and safety are implicated.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #779 on: April 24, 2020, 08:34:28 PM »
This is the strangest example of democracy I have ever witnessed. I can’t believe that we just laid back and took it when mandatory seatbelt laws were passed. Must be the power of social media.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #780 on: April 24, 2020, 08:50:56 PM »
 8)




My uncle Norman Kipling was quite a guy. Had a house up at Greenwood Lake at the very top of NJ. Pretty cool place for a kid to visit. Lots of fishing, hiking and outdoor activities that didn't happen in Camden County where I grew up. I was very young when I would visit them for a week, they never had children so I was spoiled rotten every time I visited. Many coca-colas and plenty of ice cream.


He refused to wear a seat belt when driving. I knew it was a source of disagreement with my aunt  as I would have to wear it when she rode in the car. One day I asked him why he never made me wear it when we were alone driving. He told me that he had been in a terrible car accident as a youth and was able to jump out of the car and lived to tell. NO seat belt or he would have been trapped in the car, or so he believed.  To me its an overreach! :P




Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #781 on: April 24, 2020, 09:59:09 PM »
Archie:


I used to think the same, when they first started with mandatory seat belt laws.  When I was young I used to wrestle my brother in the back seat all the way from Connecticut to the Florida keys!


But then not long after I got my driver's license, Thurman Munson died in the plane crash in Akron.  The two guys who were with him walked away unharmed, but they couldn't get Munson out, because he hadn't been wearing his shoulder harness, and he was paralyzed by hitting the dashboard on impact.  Had he survived, he'd have been the Yankees' answer to Roy Campanella.


So I've been an habitual seat belt wearer since August of 1979.


[I fixed a typo]
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 10:22:10 PM by Tom_Doak »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #782 on: April 24, 2020, 10:16:43 PM »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #783 on: April 24, 2020, 10:26:51 PM »
I’ve just realized that wearing a seatbelt does more than just protect yourself in an accident. It’s a contagious behavior that spreads across society and your family. I’m proud that my children wear their seatbelts and in turn buckle in my grandchildren. Who knows what they would be doing if I had refused.

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #784 on: April 25, 2020, 03:35:45 AM »
And that argument is the same as for wearing face masks. While there is very little protection for yourself from a standard cloth mask (or a scarf, which you can use if you don't have a mask), there is a good amount of protection for others. If you sneeze or cough, most of the virus stays inside the mask. So the idea is if you wear a mask then more and more people will come around to wear one, too, and in the end everyone is protected.

There will be no opportunity to test out this theory in Germany, because starting Monday wearing face masks will be mandatory when entering a shop or public transport. I think it's a great move, even if there were zero protection from masks. But they do have the effect that you are constantly reminded of the situation. You will be reminded to keep your distance and you will try to get out of potentially infectious situations as quickly as possible, because breathing is uncomfortable.

Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #785 on: April 25, 2020, 03:56:54 AM »
Gentlemen,
Here in Oz I have the warmth, humidity and strong sunlight so I will be outwardly disaffected if being inwardly disinfected fails to produce a cure!
Good health, Colin



Maybe we could get those astronauts on the ISS to swing by the Sun and bring back a large chunk of it so that everybody could have a spoonful to cleanse the inside too. What a great idea. Possibly the greatest I ever had or anybody has had!!!!!! :-X :-\ ::) ;)

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #786 on: April 25, 2020, 03:58:17 AM »
There will be no opportunity to test out this theory in Germany, because starting Monday wearing face masks will be mandatory when entering a shop or public transport. I think it's a great move, even if there were zero protection from masks. But they do have the effect that you are constantly reminded of the situation. You will be reminded to keep your distance and you will try to get out of potentially infectious situations as quickly as possible, because breathing is uncomfortable.

Or, people maybe embolded because of a false sense of protection and break the 2 meter bubble or simply go out more than is necessary. I fear masks are and will be treated as the answer. Its a bit like filling out courses with trees as a safety measure and people forget about the danger surrounding them.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #787 on: April 25, 2020, 08:32:10 AM »
Gentlemen,
Here in Oz I have the warmth, humidity and strong sunlight so I will be outwardly disaffected if being inwardly disinfected fails to produce a cure!
Good health, Colin



Maybe we could get those astronauts on the ISS to swing by the Sun and bring back a large chunk of it so that everybody could have a spoonful to cleanse the inside too. What a great idea. Possibly the greatest I ever had or anybody has had!!!!!! :-X :-\ ::) ;)


I'm sure all of us have thrown out a flying turd during a brainstorming session at work or in the bedroom. Thank God three days later our personal pundits are not still reporting publicly the error of our ways. Privately though some bad ideas never go away.

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #788 on: April 25, 2020, 09:40:05 AM »
JK,


I was simply being sarcastic!


Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #789 on: April 25, 2020, 10:46:55 AM »
A question out curiosity if I may - in the USA is health an overall Federal Govt responsibility or is an individual State-by-State responsibility?
atb


David,


You are probably pulling a Kavanaugh here, but seriously, are you the first generation in your family who believes that someone other than yourself is responsible for your health?


Maybe you're asking who is responsible for paying for services.  In NY, reportedly, more than a third of the population is on Medicaid (mostly federal funds administered by the state).  Medicare is probably another 18%, so over half is coming from the federal government.


Then lump in employer sponsored and subsidized health care plans, more than 2 million federal employees, 1.4 million in the active military, around 9 million receiving VA benefits, and some 20+ million state and local workers.  Add to this state and county governments with hospitals and clinics who mainly care for the indigent, there is a very small % of the population who self-pay.


And therein lies a considerable problem driving high healthcare costs.  When cost/price is divorced from a product or service, the whole supply/demand equilibrium is destroyed (largely inelastic demand).  I've supervised employees whose absenteeism could be predicted by the number of hours accumulated for paid sick leave.  Attempts to control this by requiring a doctor's excuse proved ineffective as the relatively low-cost of the co-pay ($5-$10) was more than offset by the perceived benefit of playing hooky for a couple of days.


I've known many old people in assisted care who welcomed being taken to the hospital by ambulance, some a handful of times in a calendar year.  Depending on the health care plan (many Medicare recipients have secondary insurance, some which cover nearly all expenses), the assisted-care facility benefits in terms of reduced liability and lower variable expense, the hospitals fill beds with better rates than Medicaid pays, the ambulance service (in our town most always the Fire Dept. which in addition to the ambulance, typically sent a fire truck and, on a slow day, one or more captain's vehicles) and bills the insurance.  The patients in return get the close, undivided attention they desperately need.   
 


Mark P and John K,


I have heard that the disinfectant works best when snorted as opposed to injected or consumed orally.


And word also has it that the Russians just sent Trump a large box via USPS containing the first installment of the 33,000 Hillary emails she "lost" or deleted, per his request in a nationally-televised news conference.  ::)

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #790 on: April 25, 2020, 11:23:07 AM »
A question out curiosity if I may - in the USA is health an overall Federal Govt responsibility or is an individual State-by-State responsibility?
atb
You are probably pulling a Kavanaugh here, but seriously, are you the first generation in your family who believes that someone other than yourself is responsible for your health?
Maybe you're asking who is responsible for paying for services.  In NY, reportedly, more than a third of the population is on Medicaid (mostly federal funds administered by the state).  Medicare is probably another 18%, so over half is coming from the federal government.
Then lump in employer sponsored and subsidized health care plans, more than 2 million federal employees, 1.4 million in the active military, around 9 million receiving VA benefits, and some 20+ million state and local workers.  Add to this state and county governments with hospitals and clinics who mainly care for the indigent, there is a very small % of the population who self-pay.
And therein lies a considerable problem driving high healthcare costs.  When cost/price is divorced from a product or service, the whole supply/demand equilibrium is destroyed (largely inelastic demand).  I've supervised employees whose absenteeism could be predicted by the number of hours accumulated for paid sick leave.  Attempts to control this by requiring a doctor's excuse proved ineffective as the relatively low-cost of the co-pay ($5-$10) was more than offset by the perceived benefit of playing hooky for a couple of days.
I've known many old people in assisted care who welcomed being taken to the hospital by ambulance, some a handful of times in a calendar year.  Depending on the health care plan (many Medicare recipients have secondary insurance, some which cover nearly all expenses), the assisted-care facility benefits in terms of reduced liability and lower variable expense, the hospitals fill beds with better rates than Medicaid pays, the ambulance service (in our town most always the Fire Dept. which in addition to the ambulance, typically sent a fire truck and, on a slow day, one or more captain's vehicles) and bills the insurance.  The patients in return get the close, undivided attention they desperately need.


No digs or slights nor anything contrived Lou or about money or health plans or personal responsibility which is, well, personal, just trying to find out for my own curiosity, my international education if you like, who sets health regulations or health laws as some might term them, in the US.
Are they set at Federal Govt level with every State having to comply with them, which I understand is how some countries operate, or are they set a State level with each individual State having different health regulations or health laws?
atb

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #791 on: April 25, 2020, 11:48:48 AM »
It's complicated but I think most would agree that the primary responsibility for protecting the health of US citizens lies with the individual states, not the federal government.  That said, the federal government often assumes a leading role in advice regarding that protection, through the Centers for Disease Control, the National Institutes of Health and similar orgs.  So for example after 9/11, the feds (with others) put together a model emergency health powers law with bioterrorism in mind, but it was designed to be enacted at the state level, with local modifications as deemed necessary.  It was not designed as a national law empowering the federal government.

So when the President recently said that he had total authority to "reopen" the states from lockdown, there was virtual unanimity that he was wrong, although the reasons given for why he was wrong often varied along pre-existing political fault lines.

If you're asking about the delivery of and payment for health care in the US, that's a whole 'nother subject on which I have no comment.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 12:02:11 PM by Bernie Bell »

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #792 on: April 25, 2020, 01:48:22 PM »
Thanks for clarifying things with your first two paragraphs Bernie. Like you I have no desire to get into the subject mentioned in the third para. :)
atb

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #793 on: April 25, 2020, 06:58:17 PM »
Quote
If you or a family member gets sick, should the government be required to spend unlimited $ to get you well?
Well, what's the point of having a government at all if they don't do that? The entire idea of a society from the stone age onwards has been just that: the strong and healthy protect the weak and one day become the weak themselves. At which point there's hopefully a healthy and strong new generation, who are honoring the contract.

No one would ever ask this question: if another country invades ours, should the government be required to spend their last dime to fend off the attackers and save my family?
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #794 on: April 25, 2020, 07:45:48 PM »


No one would ever ask this question: if another country invades ours, should the government be required to spend their last dime to fend off the attackers and save my family?


Even Japan knew when to quit.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #795 on: April 26, 2020, 01:19:08 AM »
Quote
If you or a family member gets sick, should the government be required to spend unlimited $ to get you well?
Well, what's the point of having a government at all if they don't do that?
Sorry, Ulrich, but that's nonsense.  It is a fundamental (and very difficult) aspect of any national health service, that decisions have to be made about what treatments can and cannot be provided.  No-one has limitless funds, so there are always limits on what can be spent.  Even before the pandemic, we have regular controversies over what treatments the NHS (through NICE) decides should be paid for and which should not.  I am certain that the same is true in every country with national health provision.  Government has to allocate a budget and appoint wise people to decide how that budget is spent.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #796 on: April 26, 2020, 02:35:12 AM »
Quote
If you or a family member gets sick, should the government be required to spend unlimited $ to get you well?
Well, what's the point of having a government at all if they don't do that? The entire idea of a society from the stone age onwards has been just that: the strong and healthy protect the weak and one day become the weak themselves. At which point there's hopefully a healthy and strong new generation, who are honoring the contract.

No one would ever ask this question: if another country invades ours, should the government be required to spend their last dime to fend off the attackers and save my family?
Ulrich you get how Democrats think now. Republicans would rather protect the yachts and empty seasonal mansions of millionaires than citizens that are less fortunate. However Reps have more money to buy politicians like Moscow Mitch and comrade Trumpsky so things are not changing soon.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #797 on: April 26, 2020, 10:35:19 AM »
I hesitate to get into this argument, but I come at all this from a theological perspective. If I boil the doctrine of original sin down to its bare bones it means something like this. If I have to choose between saving my life and saving your life I will tend to choose me. If I have to choose between what is better for me or you, I will tend to choose what is better for me. We live in that tension. The struggle is to love and care for the other at least as much as I love and care for myself. Even those outside the faith live in that tension. How do I choose? The questions we ask ourselves are; How do I love you as much as I love myself? What does that look like? The tension in this crisis is; which is better, taking the risk to open my neighbor's business so he doesn't lose his house and his business or keep him and by extension others safe from the disease? That is the question every governor must ask him/herself. The second question is similar to it. What must I do? For me it is to self-isolate so I don't become a carrier and at 73 I do not want to get infected either. Which one is more important to me? It depends on the day.

I stand in awe of those front-line doctors and nurses who have chosen the other. Many have done so and have isolated themselves from their families. They must struggle with those decisions every day. That is how they have answered the question; "How do I remain faithful to my calling as a healthcare provider, keep myself safe, and care for my family?
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #798 on: April 26, 2020, 10:39:13 AM »
Mark,

I don't see where we disagree. I'm saying that the entire point of a society is that the strong protect the weak and thus it is, for example, the government's job to help those, who cannot afford treatment. That there are limits to the amount of money the government can spend and that funds have to be allocated wisely, that much is obviously true. But it is still the government's job.

Someone who says that health care should be paid for by individual citizens and it is their responsibility to make enough money to be able to do so, is disputing the entire idea that societies are based on. To be sure, not everything, that is socialized in modern states, is also a case of the strong protecting the weak (think road construction). And not everything in health care should be socialized (think beauty procedures). But everything that has to do with the basic needs for bare survival surely must fall under that definition.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 10:41:49 AM by Ulrich Mayring »
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #799 on: April 26, 2020, 10:50:05 AM »
It doesn't make you a bad person if knowingly treating your employees respectfully increases profits.

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