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Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #675 on: April 17, 2020, 07:44:25 AM »
Was it preordained that this thread would eventually turn to religion?

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #676 on: April 17, 2020, 07:52:56 AM »
Was it preordained that this thread would eventually turn to religion?


This thread was started by a Priest.

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #677 on: April 17, 2020, 08:01:27 AM »
I guess when you don't have a reasonable argument to rebut a policy you just make an absurd one.  Sorry, I get it now, 100 people spread out on 200 acres naturally leads to 300 people crowded into a church.  Everyone must suffer because of the recklessness of a few.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #678 on: April 17, 2020, 08:05:38 AM »
Either listen to one religious leader or listen to none. I’ll choose none.

Kyle Harris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #679 on: April 17, 2020, 08:14:24 AM »
All I know is that my Dad has lived over 1,000 months in his life where more than 700 of those were dedicated to me and my life. I just gave up one month of golf in an attempt to let him enjoy a few more. Economy that my friend.


Jesus Christ John. These people are trying to convince us that letting our parents die is a small price to pay so we can go clubbing again. That's pretty insane and I'm proud of you for standing up for what's right.


These serve as reminders that compassion is never a scarce resource.

Nor a zero-sum game.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #680 on: April 17, 2020, 08:18:59 AM »
All this is an individual choice based on the risk you are comfortable subjecting to your community. It’s legal drunk driving.


If I wasn’t taking care of an 89 yr old I would be golfing every day. God has seen me do worse.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #681 on: April 17, 2020, 09:22:05 AM »
I am not adverse to sick humour. But if yer gonna spit sick jokes, have the decency to be funny.

Ciao


Et tu Brute!  Wasn't going for funny, just irony.


I found your man's suggestion to the daughter of a 90+ year-old woman that a pill to ease the pain and not a needed operation for an otherwise healthy senior neither decent, compassionate or funny.  Amazing the difference between then and now.


When Obamacare was being rammed through, "end of life conversations", aka "death panels", were thought to be "smart" policy in realization that medical costs in a universal health plan would need to be capped (aka as rationing).  Young people had a long life ahead of them to contribute; old folks, well, been there, done that, unless, of course, they were parents or family of the ruling class.


As a senior citizen with complicating factors, I don't find it reassuring nor noble that now your side is willing to put the world in a deep economic depression purportedly to "save" old people like me.  Whatever level of security is being offered, the loss of personal freedom more than offsets it, not to say anything of the cost and lost opportunities that my children and grandchildren will bear for the demands that way too many people place on government.   We do get the government we deserve, and I am afraid that this surprise is not going to end well.
Lou,

You have made a leap of logic here.  While it is true that you and I are apparently more at risk because of age, that does NOT mean that the security measures in place in the US and around the world are intended primarily "save" you and me.  We are just a clearly identifiable demographic; we're not the point.


The goal, of course, is to save as many people as possible, not only from the virus, but other people who necessarily get a lower standard of care when and if the healthcare system becomes overwhelmed.  That includes accident victims, cancer patients, heart attack victims, childhood illnesses, and on and on.

Case in point for you to consider:  A friend in GA was diagnosed with thyroid cancer on March 18th, and advised that she should have surgery asap to remove her thyroid immediately.  The best cancer treatment center available to her would normally be Emory, but Emory had NO room due to Covid patients, and the first two surgeons she contacted were both in quarantine themselves.  There was a domino effect from that; the next several surgeons had no availability even for a pre-op appointment for several weeks.  Had she stayed in Atlanta, it would have been at least another month before surgery would have been possible, simply because the Atlanta healthcare system has been strained beyond it's capacity.

So she and her husband came to Durham, which has had a stay-at-home order in place for much longer, and where the infection numbers and increase rates are similar to S. Korea (the mayor's estimate, not mine).  Once she had tested negative for Covid, she was able to have the surgery at Duke, with the surgeon of her choice, less than a week after arriving. 


I'm sure you can appreciate the difference between the two standards of care in this one example, and fortunately for my friends, money was no object; they could travel, pay for lodging and food, and they had me and my wife to make grocery and dinner runs, etc.  What might have happened to them because of the virus had Duke and Durham not been proactive with the virus back in mid-March, or if their financial circumstances been different is not pleasant to think about.  And how many around the country are finding themselves in that situation?

So if you and I are "saved" that'll be fine, but that is NOT the point of what the US, or any other country for that matter, is attempting to accomplish with shut downs.  And the simplistic idea of opening parts of the country like particular states, or areas of states, or segments of the population, suffers from the same flaws as most simplistic solutions to complex problems.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #682 on: April 17, 2020, 09:32:50 AM »
Was it preordained that this thread would eventually turn to religion?

This thread was started by a Priest.

Retired...once a preacher always a preacher?  8)

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 09:35:24 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #683 on: April 17, 2020, 09:51:42 AM »

If I wasn’t taking care of an 89 yr old I would be golfing every day. God has seen me do worse.



I'm out -- I hope everyone stays safe and those that choose to play golf enjoy it.





Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #684 on: April 17, 2020, 10:16:20 AM »
Was it preordained that this thread would eventually turn to religion?


This thread was started by a Priest.


And he should have divined that this thread would go to Hell. 
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #685 on: April 17, 2020, 10:19:11 AM »

If I wasn’t taking care of an 89 yr old I would be golfing every day. God has seen me do worse.



I'm out -- I hope everyone stays safe and those that choose to play golf enjoy it.


I've never believed more me makes a better world. Sad to think that if I wasn't taking care of my Dad I would be perfectly comfortable putting my wife, children and grandchildren at risk because an elected official told me it was safe. Golf was never a distraction from life for me when in fact life has often been a distraction from golf. I've never enjoyed a round with a heavy mind or heart. It will be interesting to see what the future holds.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #686 on: April 17, 2020, 12:27:17 PM »
How long was that cluster-f%^! Merion thread?  Like 80 something pages?

This tells me that at 28 pages and counting.. you fine chaps still have a ton more pontificating and mud-slinging to do!!

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #687 on: April 17, 2020, 12:37:04 PM »
Kalen, as the leading anti religion zealot during this crisis it would have been interesting to hear your take on the article in GD. Interesting would be refreshing.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #688 on: April 17, 2020, 12:50:17 PM »
Kalen, as the leading anti religion zealot during this crisis it would have been interesting to hear your take on the article in GD. Interesting would be refreshing.

John,

Just read the article, my only comment here is..that's the least offensive comments I've heard from religious leaders in a long time.  As for the current crisis, if God does exist, then he/she sure does have a twisted sense of humor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/04/13/virginia-pastor-church-dies-coronavirus/


But if you want to talk about bullshit, non-tax paying churches getting bailout money is right up there.

https://www.frontpagelive.com/2020/04/08/government-coronavirus-bailouts-will-pay-pastors-salaries/


Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #689 on: April 17, 2020, 01:29:27 PM »
It's not bullshit at all.  The relief is available to all non-profits (also non taxable) who meet the criteria.  A strong argument could be made (and would have been made) that it would have been unconstitutional to provide government benefits to the general class of nonprofits and exclude only religious organizations.  But don't let that get in the way of your ill-informed contempt.  You wanna hate, no one can stop you.

And thanks for the article Jerry.  I thought it was interesting and I don't otherwise see Golf Digest.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #690 on: April 17, 2020, 01:30:48 PM »
Kalen, as the leading anti religion zealot during this crisis it would have been interesting to hear your take on the article in GD. Interesting would be refreshing.

John,

Just read the article, my only comment here is..that's the least offensive comments I've heard from religious leaders in a long time.  As for the current crisis, if God does exist, then he/she sure does have a twisted sense of humor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/04/13/virginia-pastor-church-dies-coronavirus/


But if you want to talk about bullshit, non-tax paying churches getting bailout money is right up there.

https://www.frontpagelive.com/2020/04/08/government-coronavirus-bailouts-will-pay-pastors-salaries/


Even from my perspective churches should be helping out community members and not take money away from them by applying for a loan. The church is the church only when it gives itself away.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #691 on: April 17, 2020, 01:44:19 PM »
Kalen, as the leading anti religion zealot during this crisis it would have been interesting to hear your take on the article in GD. Interesting would be refreshing.

John,

Just read the article, my only comment here is..that's the least offensive comments I've heard from religious leaders in a long time.  As for the current crisis, if God does exist, then he/she sure does have a twisted sense of humor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/04/13/virginia-pastor-church-dies-coronavirus/


But if you want to talk about bullshit, non-tax paying churches getting bailout money is right up there.

https://www.frontpagelive.com/2020/04/08/government-coronavirus-bailouts-will-pay-pastors-salaries/


Even from my perspective churches should be helping out community members and not take money away from them by applying for a loan. The church is the church only when it gives itself away.


That's an admirable position and every congregation is free to make its own decision in that regard, especially if it has the means to continue to meet its own payroll.  But if you agree that aid to non-profits was warranted, then a blanket exclusion for religious organizations would have been legally suspect.  One could differ on the wisdom of any individual congregation availing of the relief offered, but government making it available is not "bullshit." 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 02:04:38 PM by Bernie Bell »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #692 on: April 17, 2020, 01:48:56 PM »
"Reactive bigtory".  That's both deeply ironic and spuriously precious at the same time...

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #693 on: April 17, 2020, 02:05:47 PM »
"Reactive bigtory".  That's both deeply ironic and spuriously precious at the same time...


I deleted that just in case you had anything substantive you wanted to say, beyond smartassery

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #694 on: April 17, 2020, 02:27:52 PM »
Bernie -


I believe the issue lies with whether many of those religious institutions are truly non-profits.  When "preachers" are living the same lifestyle as Fortune-500 CEO's, one does wonder.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #695 on: April 17, 2020, 02:43:05 PM »
Bernie -


I believe the issue lies with whether many of those religious institutions are truly non-profits.  When "preachers" are living the same lifestyle as Fortune-500 CEO's, one does wonder.


It really isn't fair to compare those few tv preachers and mega church evangelical pastors with the vast majority of clergy who serve local congregations. I never felt even in the same faith as some of those charlatans.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #696 on: April 17, 2020, 02:47:37 PM »
Bernie -


I believe the issue lies with whether many of those religious institutions are truly non-profits.  When "preachers" are living the same lifestyle as Fortune-500 CEO's, one does wonder.


It really isn't fair to compare those few tv preachers and mega church evangelical pastors with the vast majority of clergy who serve local congregations. I never felt even in the same faith as some of those charlatans.


Tommy:


I wasn't trying to make that comparison, I was merely pointing out that the religious exemptions are a big blanket.


I believe those that entered the clergy to serve (as opposed to earn) for the most part took on some form of a vow of poverty.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #697 on: April 17, 2020, 02:49:58 PM »
Sven, same logic applies to United Way, Planned Parenthood, major orchestras, universities (Harvard!) and many other non-profits whose CEOs earn 7-figure salaries.  If the window is open for one, it must be open for all.  Otherwise you're disfavoring religious organizations, which is suspect.  I don't expect Joel Osteen to be applying, but small mainline congregations that are hanging on by a thread anyway might, if the alternative is bankruptcy and leaving the sexton and secretary to unemployment benefits, which in some states are mighty iffy. 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 02:52:13 PM by Bernie Bell »

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #698 on: April 17, 2020, 02:56:33 PM »
Sven, same logic applies to United Way, Planned Parenthood, major orchestras, universities (Harvard!) and many other non-profits whose CEOs earn 7-figure salaries.  If the window is open for one, it must be open for all.  Otherwise you're disfavoring religious organizations, which is suspect.  I don't expect Joel Osteen to be applying, but small mainline congregations that are hanging on by a thread anyway might, if the alternative is bankruptcy and leaving the sexton and secretary to unemployment benefits, which in some states are mighty iffy.


Bernie:


I think we agree that the current structure is rife for abuse.  Trying to decide which side of the line of validity any charity falls on comes down to a matter of personal opinion. 


That being said, there are certain institutions that are obviously more about profit than they are about giving back.


Sven



"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #699 on: April 17, 2020, 02:58:49 PM »
Back to Covid.


We all are going to have to live with the decisions we've made over the last few months and during the times to come.


I am comfortable with the choices I've made so far.  I hope you all are as well.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

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