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A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #400 on: March 30, 2020, 09:47:47 AM »
A.G.


Lots of good posts there, thanks!


The weights are more for my eldest son (a rugby player) and wife (who has started weightlifting as a way of working out) than me, though I am taking to opportunity to do some leg work as I also do a fair bit of recreational, non-competitive cycling and my climbing ability could really do with improvement.  I must look into some of those TPI work outs you mention.  Is there a good place to look?


Mark

Mark,

I think if you go on Youtube and enter "TPI workouts" in the search box, you'll get a good running start.  More stuff is being put up every day as we move into the stay-at-home existence with gyms closed.

As it happens, I had been working since December with an outfit called Par4Success in Cary, NC; they had tested me and devised workouts that were not only golf specific but tailored specifically to my deficiencies, which are mostly mobility because I'm old!  I have moved to their online program in January, so when the stay-at-home came along, they set up workouts for me to do at home.  The heaviest weight I have is a 40 lb. dumbbell; the only place that I miss more weight is for deadlifts, but with two 25's and a resistance band, I can even make that work.

I've always loved working out as much as playing golf, although I've always defaulted to thinking about working out in terms of performance in a sport.  But I must say, reconfiguring my workouts to this stuff has been a revelation; I think I'll continue these workouts as best I can even if the day comes where I'm not playing golf at all.  They are just much more efficient ways to use my time and energy.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

D_Malley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #401 on: March 30, 2020, 10:34:24 AM »
Mark,
your comments hit very close to home with me.
I have two athlete kids at home needing to workout and i do not have weights.
High school son also a rugby player and wrestler
freshman College daughter ...D1 track and field
Both the rugby and track seasons will be canceled for spring.


both are asking me to get them a bench and some weights, i was hoping to find something used but that might be a hot commodity right now.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #402 on: March 30, 2020, 10:50:36 AM »
The series of 18strong golf exercise videos on youtube are very good. Many of the videos do not require much in the way of gym equipment.


https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=18strong
 

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #403 on: March 30, 2020, 11:12:07 AM »
About a decade ago I was approaching 50 years old and played a round of golf with my son-in-laws down in Georgia.  A few weeks later when we got home my wife was showing me pictures and I thought, "who's that fat, bald guy in the middle?"   

At the same time I had hypertension, cholesterol over 200 (low on the good stuff), had just kicked a nicotine habit, still ate crap regularly, would do a couple gasps after climbing steps, and when we'd play golf the first thought in my mind would be, "I hope we're taking carts".   Despite new technology, my driving distance got shorter and shorter and I would feel tight, tired, and inflexible playing.

At the same time our daughter was starting to run marathons, her husband and his brother were starting this workout at home program called P90x (the before and after pics made a big impression on me) and I decided to give it a try.   Long story short, I've been pretty religious about doing it (actually these days recommend P90x3 and Jillian Michaels 90 Day Body Revolution, both of which can be done in half hour) now for almost ten years and it doesn't require more than a DVD player, a television set, some dumbells (these days the most I throw around is 25 pounds in each hand), a chin up bar or stretch bands, and I'm in by far the best shape of my life as I approach age 62.

My numbers are all off the charts good, I feel better than I did when I was 35, and I hit the golf ball further than I ever have.   I say all this not to boast but simply to hopefully  inspire someone to take this time we've been given and see if you can't make an investment in yourself.   I hear people in the 40s and 50s say stuff like, "oh, I'm getting old."   That's crap.   You're only old when you stop moving like you're young.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 11:14:05 AM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #404 on: March 30, 2020, 11:13:55 AM »


Jon W,


Your story about the Edinburgh couple reminds me of a frequent lament/whine/complaint I heard in the Costa del Sol (around Marbella) during the '90s.  It seems that in August of most years, a considerable number of French tourists hauling small trailers with under-powered vehicles descended on the public spaces near the beach.  These would be packed to the gills with supplies, and with the exception of spending a little on gas and a few cheap staples, they left nothing in Spain other than their garbage.




Lou,


If I understand your point correctly it is if someone owns something then they should be able to use it as they wish. I would agree with that sentiment but not if it endangers others or is to the great detriment of others. As for the Spanish example it is a little off the mark. The correct analogy would have been if the French had stripped the area of supplies leaving the locals to starve. It is not acceptable to say because I am richer I can outbid those poorer because it is my right.


You do not understand my point correctly.  It is not my contention that a property owner "should be able to use it as they wish".  For example, if I owned a unit at Grannie's Heilan' while normally residing in Edinburgh or London, I would hope to be able to enjoy its use at my option.  That is not to say that I should be able to build a multi-story rental on the site or run a brothel out of it. 


I was not analogizing the Spanish example to the current situation in areas where second homes are common.  Complaints here just reminded me of old gripes.  In one of my favorite movies, "The Man Who Would Be King", each time a village was conquered by Dan and Peachy (Connery and Cain), the local leaders would complain about their enemies upstream pissing in the river and thus urging that they become the next targets. 


Human nature is impossible to overcome.  We are all tribal, clannish despite our efforts to overcome the worst aspects.  I can tell you from first hand experience that despite being largely indistinguishable in appearance from the local populations, twice in my life- as a Spaniard in Cuba and a Cuban in New Riegel (small Ohio town nearly 100% German Catholic)- some partial acceptance is possible, but not ever as a "member".  Come to think of it, this might apply to international or non-resident golf memberships as well.  And, in a substantial part, to political identification as well.  I always get a kick out of leftist politicians in the U.S. using tiny, white, blue-eyed Sweden as our model.


Unfortunately, unless you are a Communist, supply and demand issues of scarce resources are solved through the pricing mechanism.  Many Canadians discovered real estate investments in the Dallas area because they came down here to purchase medical services which in their country were doled by "right".  You don't need even a most basic primer in economics to know that when you produce two units but need 10, something has to give.


Perhaps a solution to would-be UK refugees fleeing to their own homes in safer regions is to implore them to bring their own supplies.  Rationing is one of the primary vehicles employed by Canada since demand for health services is divorced from price (I understand that some private pay within the country is now allowed in a few areas).  I suppose that the Co-Ops in the various villages could ration scarce supplies based on primary residence (driver's license, voter registration doc.).  Or, perhaps opening up the supply lines and more rational consumer behavior would alleviate things.  Or maybe we can gain some psychic relief by whining about our distant neighbors pissing into the stream or playing golf in low affected areas.
           

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #405 on: March 30, 2020, 12:25:38 PM »


Jon W,


Your story about the Edinburgh couple reminds me of a frequent lament/whine/complaint I heard in the Costa del Sol (around Marbella) during the '90s.  It seems that in August of most years, a considerable number of French tourists hauling small trailers with under-powered vehicles descended on the public spaces near the beach.  These would be packed to the gills with supplies, and with the exception of spending a little on gas and a few cheap staples, they left nothing in Spain other than their garbage.




Lou,


If I understand your point correctly it is if someone owns something then they should be able to use it as they wish. I would agree with that sentiment but not if it endangers others or is to the great detriment of others. As for the Spanish example it is a little off the mark. The correct analogy would have been if the French had stripped the area of supplies leaving the locals to starve. It is not acceptable to say because I am richer I can outbid those poorer because it is my right.


You do not understand my point correctly.  It is not my contention that a property owner "should be able to use it as they wish".  For example, if I owned a unit at Grannie's Heilan' while normally residing in Edinburgh or London, I would hope to be able to enjoy its use at my option.  That is not to say that I should be able to build a multi-story rental on the site or run a brothel out of it. 


I was not analogizing the Spanish example to the current situation in areas where second homes are common.  Complaints here just reminded me of old gripes.  In one of my favorite movies, "The Man Who Would Be King", each time a village was conquered by Dan and Peachy (Connery and Cain), the local leaders would complain about their enemies upstream pissing in the river and thus urging that they become the next targets. 


Human nature is impossible to overcome.  We are all tribal, clannish despite our efforts to overcome the worst aspects.  I can tell you from first hand experience that despite being largely indistinguishable in appearance from the local populations, twice in my life- as a Spaniard in Cuba and a Cuban in New Riegel (small Ohio town nearly 100% German Catholic)- some partial acceptance is possible, but not ever as a "member".  Come to think of it, this might apply to international or non-resident golf memberships as well.  And, in a substantial part, to political identification as well.  I always get a kick out of leftist politicians in the U.S. using tiny, white, blue-eyed Sweden as our model.


Unfortunately, unless you are a Communist, supply and demand issues of scarce resources are solved through the pricing mechanism.  Many Canadians discovered real estate investments in the Dallas area because they came down here to purchase medical services which in their country were doled by "right".  You don't need even a most basic primer in economics to know that when you produce two units but need 10, something has to give.


Perhaps a solution to would-be UK refugees fleeing to their own homes in safer regions is to implore them to bring their own supplies.  Rationing is one of the primary vehicles employed by Canada since demand for health services is divorced from price (I understand that some private pay within the country is now allowed in a few areas).  I suppose that the Co-Ops in the various villages could ration scarce supplies based on primary residence (driver's license, voter registration doc.).  Or, perhaps opening up the supply lines and more rational consumer behavior would alleviate things.  Or maybe we can gain some psychic relief by whining about our distant neighbors pissing into the stream or playing golf in low affected areas.
           
Lou,

The basic economic condition of scarcity isn't "solved" through a pricing mechanism; rather scarce resources can be allocated thru a pricing system.  It isn't the only method of allocation, but it's the predominant one here.  Allocating and solving are far from the same.


This isn't parsing words; it's an important distinction because allocating via prices guarantees that lots of people will be left out. With some scarce resources, like diamonds, that might not matter.  With others, like healthcare, it might matter a lot.  For instance, I suspect that the death rate from Covid19 among the urban homeless in the US will be at least marginally higher than certain other groups because of the way that we allocated healthcare resources in the US.  That is far from a solution.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #406 on: March 30, 2020, 12:47:13 PM »

Lou,


thanks for clearing that up. As well as free market economics and communism there is also socialism as another wide spread economic philosophy but a myriad of other ideas exist too. One thing I think is slowly dawning on people and countries is globalisation and the free market economy in its present form is simply not fit for purpose. Certainly here in Europe I would expect there to be a massive move towards a levelling up of economic and social standards. Indeed, if the EU is smart it is one way the European experiment might be saved.


Jon

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #407 on: March 30, 2020, 12:51:22 PM »
I don't know where Texas stands currently but if they shut down recreation facilities should the new owner of Wolf Point be allowed to play his course?




I feel like Nostradumbass


https://www.instagram.com/p/B-Qufj8JMyL/?igshid=67323icm0gam
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #408 on: March 30, 2020, 02:04:56 PM »
A.G.,


Spoken like a true pedant.


In my world, the one where most of us live in, a solution is not a perfect outcome, but one that achieves the best possible results among available, realistic options.  A fairly applicable lesson for purposes of illustration comes  from my early days at Ohio State when we were able to bring back cases of Coors from our trip to CO and sell them by the can at many different price points with diminishing demand as these went up.  At a certain price for most students, Pabst, Strohs, even Iron City became perfectly acceptable substitutes, a good "solution", IMO, to a Coors supply/demand imbalance. 


Achieving the type of "social justice" I suspect you endorse is an impossibility, no matter how many books you read, how virtuous you perceive yourself to be,  or what different biases you can allude to.  While we were mainly talking about the staples and supplies normally found at Co-Ops and small grocery stores in sparsely populated areas, your jump to the plight of the homeless is interesting nonetheless.  (I recall vans parked across the Co-Op next to the Dornoch cathedral selling fish, meat, prepared foods, etc.- do you think that these suppliers would not crank up if the prices merit the extra effort?).
 
So, is the problem vis-a-vis the current pandemic and the "homeless" one of how health services are allocated in the States, or the various things that go into some people becoming and remaining in that group?   Of course the homeless in urban centers will fare worse than average.  I suspect that their life expectancy is significantly lower and that the incidence of at-risk conditions is much greater.


But tell me how you would solve the problem in the same context of your reply to me.  How are countries with multi-cultural populations and healthcare as a right doing?  Perfection should never be the made into the enemy of the good.  Would I have a better chance of being admitted to a NYC hospital while showing symptoms because I am insured than a homeless man who doesn't?  I don't think that this would be the case down here where hospitals are required to a least stabilize a patient without regard to payment.


What evidence do you have that if "free" healthcare was the law that we would be better prepared?  Why does a simple gall bladder operation in Canada sometimes require months of wait on a list?   What government provided service does not involve long waits and unsatisfactory results (please, don't mention SS- a system that not even FDR contemplated as more than short term).  And do you really think that 150+ million Americans would tolerate what was previously on-demand services for a spot is a long queue?  Maybe your experience with the BoMV in SC unlike ours.


I hope that you are not an Emanuel disciple of "Never allow a crisis to go to waste" fame.  Are your posts on the swine flu pandemic in 2009 accessible?  And if you come across Brother Cirba's laments of that time, please link them.

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #409 on: March 30, 2020, 02:24:47 PM »

Lou,

I suppose that your two shots at the Canadian health care system was at least partly intended to draw my attention.  Sadly, after our many long discussions and debates on the subject, you still seem to have a somewhat skewed vision of our system.

Juxtaposing Canada and Communism is just plain silly.  A single payer system with universal coverage is not Communism.

I don't even know what "doled by "right"" even means with respect to our health care system.  Since returning from Florida a week ago, I've had my family doctor refer me to an ENT specialist and had a phone consult with the specialist since I'm in self isolation as a returning traveler.  Surgery can't be scheduled because elective surgeries are not a priority at the moment.  I suppose under your system you could buy immediate access to your doctors, specialists and elective surgery.  But our system works for me.  A couple of months ago my daughter was struck with a very strong Noro virus and we had to call an ambulance and take her to Emergency at the hospital.  They had her in isolation and on intravenous and medication pretty quickly.  Access wasn't a problem - and there was no out of pocket cost.

As for Canadian medical tourists in Texas, following is a quote from an article in the American Journal of Medicine:

"]Patients who travel to another country to seek health care are referred to as medical tourists. The term arose because many Americans seek less expensive elective surgical, dental, or cosmetic procedures while vacationing abroad.  Of course, US hospitals and physicians have also long cared for medical tourists from other countries. Now, many medical tourists are going the other way—from the United States to other countries to receive health care. In 2007, it is estimated that 750,000 Americans traveled to other countries for health care.  In 2017, more than 1.4 million Americans sought health care in a variety of countries around the world."

Seems Americans are medical tourists in large numbers in other counties as well.  Cost seems to be the driving force although presumably these people have money to access the American systems.

As far as rationing health services, that is certainly a misrepresentation of how our system works.  Yes, there is a supply and demand issue.  Yes, you may have to wait for some services.  But, as per my examples above that doesn't impact emergencies in a material way and waiting for non-emergency medical services is no great hardship.  To call that rationing where you only get some minimal service or less than you need is just plain silly.  If I need a knee replacement, I'll get it.  It may take a few months to get it, but it won't be partially done or restricted in some other way.

Do you suppose that your capitalist system will deal better with the supply and demand crisis in New York and other places in the US. It seems, as of yesterday, that keeping the death count under 100,000 will be declared a victory - a Pyrrhic victory at best.

Keep well and stay safe - we are both in the high risk group.














MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #410 on: March 30, 2020, 02:26:32 PM »
Lou,

"From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases, 274,304 hospitalizations, and 12,469 deaths in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus."


As I'm sure you recall, in the fall of 2008 the world economy melted down in George Bush's second term leading to double-digit unemployment and the stock market losing 2/3 of it's value.   So there was just a little bit going on at the time as far as distraction.   

While the losses from the "Swine Flu" pandemic were considerable and sad, today we learned from Dr. Birx that a best case model that assumes we all consistently practice social distancing through the month of May (see Florida's laissez-faire beach approach this past weekend to see why that ain't happening) there will be somewhere upwards of 200,000 United States deaths.

This new pandemic at a time when we've had over a decade of economic growth, the longest peacetime recovery in our history with record market highs and very low unemployment.  It came at a time we've had months of advance warning.   I'm not sure your point of comparison?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 02:35:07 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #411 on: March 30, 2020, 02:39:30 PM »
One other thing I should mention...I've been more a proponent of the Joe Biden/Mayor Pete approach where folks keep their private insurance if they want but there is also a public Medicare option.

That works with 3.5% unemployment, by and large.   However, we don't know what we're going to see as the economy spirals very quickly and massive amounts of people lose their jobs.   "Medicare for all" certainly seems like a more viable approach in that scenario, and I have to admit that I'm not sure why we saddle private industry with this non-related business cost in the first place?

Stay safe and be well, Lou.   Too much going on right now for further debate at this time.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #412 on: March 30, 2020, 02:41:53 PM »
Take the politics over to Facebook. ::)

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #413 on: March 30, 2020, 02:59:00 PM »
The trainer Jennifer Fleischer has some good posts on Instagram for homebound golf workouts without much equipment, just bands and such.  I think she's a writer for one of the golf mags, so maybe her stuff is available there too.  Also, if you really want dumbbells, a 24-pack suitcase of Bud cans weighs 20 pounds +/- and 30-pack weighs 25 pounds +/-. 

Peter Pallotta

Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #414 on: March 30, 2020, 03:10:52 PM »
The trainer Jennifer Fleischer has some good posts on Instagram for homebound golf workouts without much equipment, just bands and such.  I think she's a writer for one of the golf mags, so maybe her stuff is available there too.  Also, if you really want dumbbells, a 24-pack suitcase of Bud cans weighs 20 pounds +/- and 30-pack weighs 25 pounds +/-.
This year I'm going to test my theory that the best way for me to prepare for the golf season is by doing absolutely nothing -- no exercise, no range time, no drills/practice, no stretching, and no eating right. Hopefully at some point later this summer, I'll be able to report back on how well a golf training regime based on several mugs of coffee a day, heaping bowls of fettuccine alfredo, and a permanent place on the living room couch has fine-tuned my body to perform at peak efficiency -- and produced the outcome we all long for most, ie lower scores.     

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #415 on: March 30, 2020, 04:02:20 PM »

Lou,

"What evidence do you have that if "free" healthcare was the law that we would be better prepared?  Why does a simple gall bladder operation in Canada sometimes require months of wait on a list?   What government provided service does not involve long waits and unsatisfactory results"

What makes you think our health care is free.  We pay for it through various taxes.

Is this an urgent gall bladder operation or an elective one?  How long would you have to  wait under your system?  Are you on Medicare now or a private plan?  If you want to see waiting times in Ontario, go to the following site:[

https://www.hqontario.ca/System-Performance/Wait-Times-for-Surgeries-and-Procedures/Wait-Times-for-Other-Surgeries-and-Procedures/Time-to-Patients-First-Surgical-Appointment

It's silly to conflate all government services with universally unsatisfactory results.  Up here the government runs the health care system, but the actual medical services are provided by doctors, nurses, and hospitals etc.  To say that the medical service providers deliver unsatisfactory medical results because they're paid by the government is just not true.  You're rhetoric is getting away from you.
 

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #416 on: March 30, 2020, 04:35:38 PM »
Perhaps we can agree on the observation that previously "unsexy" topics like health care or even capitalism/globalisation are increasingly coming to the forefront. This stuff is suddenly discussed.

My conclusion is that there is going to be change. It is unavoidable, because too many people are now realising that something went wrong at a systemic level.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #417 on: March 30, 2020, 04:50:37 PM »
A.G.,


Spoken like a true pedant.


In my world, the one where most of us live in, a solution is not a perfect outcome, but one that achieves the best possible results among available, realistic options.  A fairly applicable lesson for purposes of illustration comes  from my early days at Ohio State when we were able to bring back cases of Coors from our trip to CO and sell them by the can at many different price points with diminishing demand as these went up.  At a certain price for most students, Pabst, Strohs, even Iron City became perfectly acceptable substitutes, a good "solution", IMO, to a Coors supply/demand imbalance. 


Achieving the type of "social justice" I suspect you endorse is an impossibility, no matter how many books you read, how virtuous you perceive yourself to be,  or what different biases you can allude to.  While we were mainly talking about the staples and supplies normally found at Co-Ops and small grocery stores in sparsely populated areas, your jump to the plight of the homeless is interesting nonetheless.  (I recall vans parked across the Co-Op next to the Dornoch cathedral selling fish, meat, prepared foods, etc.- do you think that these suppliers would not crank up if the prices merit the extra effort?).
 
So, is the problem vis-a-vis the current pandemic and the "homeless" one of how health services are allocated in the States, or the various things that go into some people becoming and remaining in that group?   Of course the homeless in urban centers will fare worse than average.  I suspect that their life expectancy is significantly lower and that the incidence of at-risk conditions is much greater.


But tell me how you would solve the problem in the same context of your reply to me.  How are countries with multi-cultural populations and healthcare as a right doing?  Perfection should never be the made into the enemy of the good.  Would I have a better chance of being admitted to a NYC hospital while showing symptoms because I am insured than a homeless man who doesn't?  I don't think that this would be the case down here where hospitals are required to a least stabilize a patient without regard to payment.


What evidence do you have that if "free" healthcare was the law that we would be better prepared?  Why does a simple gall bladder operation in Canada sometimes require months of wait on a list?   What government provided service does not involve long waits and unsatisfactory results (please, don't mention SS- a system that not even FDR contemplated as more than short term).  And do you really think that 150+ million Americans would tolerate what was previously on-demand services for a spot is a long queue?  Maybe your experience with the BoMV in SC unlike ours.


I hope that you are not an Emanuel disciple of "Never allow a crisis to go to waste" fame.  Are your posts on the swine flu pandemic in 2009 accessible?  And if you come across Brother Cirba's laments of that time, please link them.
Lou,

I've been called MUCH worse than a pedant, so no offense taken.  That you consider pricing a "solution" to scarcity, rather than simply a method of allocation is yours to decide, and if the difference between allocation and a solution seems to you pedantic, then so be it.


For the record, though, I neither advocated nor do I believe in "free" healthcare; it doesn't exist, here or anywhere else.  I DO advocate and believe in healthcare as a basic human right, and I DO advocate and believe in a single payer system.  I know that you take issue with that view, and either you are right, or the rest of the industrialized world is; there isn't really any middle ground left in 2020, is there?   
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #418 on: March 30, 2020, 05:40:42 PM »
It seems people always forget the crap stories right here in the US as well.  So I've got one for you Lou.

A number of years ago I developed a nerve condition in my arm and after being unable to initially detect the root cause, they referred me to a specialist, of which there was only one in the entire area.  Initially I was setup with an appointment 2 months out, even thou the pain was interrupting sleep and other daily activities. But that's not even the worst part....2 weeks before the appointment, I got a call from the office saying the Dr was going to be on vacation for my long ago scheduled visit and they'd need to push me out an additional month. So i told em to forget it.

I then called around and found a place an hour away who could see me, but they weren't in my healthcare network and after placing a call into my healthcare provider found out it would be 100% out of pocket to me.

I gave up at that point and just rode it out and after a year or so it thankfully resolved. So Lou what was I paying all those expensive premiums for?  And that was back when it was at least affordable.  Most private plans now are highway robbery.  High premiums, with massive deductibles before the plan even pays out a penny.  The US system is broken on several levels.

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #419 on: March 30, 2020, 06:10:15 PM »
For anyone here with a golf course, here is a pretty good summary of the SBA loan program:
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/summary-cares-act

I wouldn't even really think of it as a loan, but more of a disaster grant. 

I still think that it might be problematic for northern courses that would be ramping up their payroll right now.  i.e. they might have trouble qualifying for the amount that they need to retain and pay key employees through the end of June to maintain the grounds since those people weren't on the payroll for the past few months. 
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 06:12:20 PM by Peter Flory »

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #420 on: March 30, 2020, 06:39:24 PM »
Tim,


When did it occur to you that this thread veered off into politics?


Bryan,


Sorry, your supposition is wrong.  You did not come to mind in my ill-advised attempt to reply to Jon.  I was not "juxtaposing" communism to the Canadian one-payer system by virtue of the two appearing in subsequent sentences.  Instead, I was noting that in a Communist system such as Cuba's, the state allocates resources without prices.  In its command economy, most workers get paid the same amount, 100 pesos a month I think, and they are given ration cards for staples and other necessary goods.  In response, the workers pretend to work and the country has been in a continual decline for six decades.


Canada's system, if I understand it correctly, does involve market pricing since the supply of medical professionals is impacted by what the government agrees to pay for services.  Given the number of Asian doctors and healthcare providers who work in the U.S., I am assuming that Canadian healthcare workers would be able to immigrate if the wages/prices were unsatisfactory.  It is a bit harder for a Cuban doctor dispatched to Venezuela in exchange for oil and foreign exchange to say "to hell with it" and hop the border into America (besides, medical training in Cuba appears to be so basic and substandard that few could get licensed).


By "doled by right" I simply mean that people in Canada (illegal immigrants and non-citizens too?) are entitled to most medical services with no direct payment.  I am glad that you're satisfied with the system and feel well-served.  I am doubtful that many Americans who up until recently pretty much had service on demand would be patient to wait in pain for the queue to work itself out, especially at the end of the budget year.  A system which has the capacity to be adequately responsive to immediate life-threatening medical problems and ration remaining care may serve Canada's needs, but I am doubtful of its efficacy in the U.S.


As to medical tourism, caveat emptor.  Cost is a big factor.  Some people would rather drive an expensive car, have a second home, travel in style to exotic destination than be willing to pay for a procedure out of pocket.  As a libertarian, for the most part, I respect the right of people to make their own choices with the caveat that they must be responsible for the consequences.  If someone wishes to travel to Costa Rica or Poland for a back operation to save $20k, I guess it is a better choice than a much lower amount in Cuba or another similar country.  I doubt that any would travel to Canada, even if your government allowed the already limited number of doctors to take on cash patients.


Regarding my use of the word "rationing", I don't know what you would call waiting several months for many elective procedures.  The gall bladder example was only one of many I was made aware of.  Perhaps I am guilty of confirmation bias.  I can probably get my knee replaced during normal times in a week or so, the time largely a function of testing, scheduling with a specific ortho, and where I want it done.  Some star doctors in high demand have longer lead times, a form of rationing I guess given how much they are willing to work and how many people demand their services, not a government budget or targeted type of service.


You know quite well my thoughts on "free" stuff.  A country such as yours, huge in physical size relative to population, blessed in bountiful natural resources, beauty, and some of the kindest, most knowledgeable people anywhere, why is the cost of living so damned high?  Of course, your health care is not free.  And maybe you are getting an acceptable bang for the buck when it comes to health care and the quality of life.  But your demographics, dominant culture, and expectations are quite different than ours.


As to NYC and the results from the pandemic, let's re-visit the subject this time next year.  I've been pretty good at evaluating risk much of my life and my reading and gut feel are that we will fare better than many fear.


And thank you for your well wishes.  Ditto to you and yours.   




Tim Martin

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Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #421 on: March 30, 2020, 06:57:48 PM »
Tim,


When did it occur to you that this thread veered off into politics


Touché-Knock yourself out Lou.

Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #422 on: March 30, 2020, 09:00:31 PM »
My long time friend Tom Hsieh runs the Gleneagles 9-hole course in San Francisco.  He is really struggling through this, and is doing a GoFundMe to make it through the shutdown.  Gleneagles is a special place, and is worth saving.  Hope some of you can send a few $'s his way.


Link:  https://www.gofundme.com/f/gleneagles-covid19-relief-fund
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #423 on: March 31, 2020, 03:38:00 AM »

Bryan,


Sorry, your supposition is wrong.  You did not come to mind in my ill-advised attempt to reply to Jon.  I was not "juxtaposing" communism to the Canadian one-payer system by virtue of the two appearing in subsequent sentences.  Instead, I was noting that in a Communist system such as Cuba's, the state allocates resources without prices.  In its command economy, most workers get paid the same amount, 100 pesos a month I think, and they are given ration cards for staples and other necessary goods.  In response, the workers pretend to work and the country has been in a continual decline for six decades.




Lou,


now I am no advocate of communism but to suggest that this is the root cause of Cuba's decline is well.....at best pushing it in the extreme. I would suggest that the main reason is that no major economy has traded with them during the last 6 decades due to the US blockade.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 01:31:22 PM by Jon Wiggett »

Lou_Duran

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Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #424 on: March 31, 2020, 06:32:50 PM »

Lou,

now I am no advocate of communism but to suggest that this is the root cause of Cuba's decline is well.....at best pushing it in the extreme. I would suggest that the main reason is that no major economy has traded with them during the last 6 decades due to the US blockade.


I thought that you went organic a while ago.  Remnant effects?   :o    You may wish to Google the topic.  Besides the C Party in Cuba, and probably only in public lest their own comrades start laughing, no one with knowledge of the subject matter would make such a claim.


While it is true that for years many American companies have been barred by law from trading directly with Cuba's communist dictatorship, the ROW was not.  Many like Spain and Canada did in a big way, and there are relatively few products that the Cubans haven't had access to purchase.


The problem, especially after the Soviet Union stopped paying Cuba to be a thorn at our side (and spreading socialist revolution in parts of the Americas and Africa), was one of a lack of foreign exchange and the fact that the Cuban government didn't pay its bills.  Hard to import stuff when you don't respect private property and live up to contracts.  Not even C.O.D. works.


Venezuela subbed in for a while, but it's own transformation into a destitute social utopia with the resulting decline of its oil production and recent collapse of the world price makes Cuba's comparative advantage in police state suppression even less valuable in the marketplace.  I truly hope that there is some truth to the theory that C-19 doesn't like heat and both countries weather through the pandemic lightly.  Their populations have suffered more than enough.


Those who hate capitalism but have become disillusioned with the demonstrable complete failure of socialism throughout history, worldwide shouldn't despair.  The Clintonistas thought that they had discovered the elusive "third way" ("smart" government making "smart" policy).  Alas, that too didn't turn out too well, so it must be still out there to be found.   ;) 
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 06:38:11 PM by Lou_Duran »

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