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Thomas Dai

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TPC Sawgrass vrs ANGC
« on: March 13, 2020, 04:52:40 PM »
Pete Dye was mentioned by Tom Doak on a recent Podcast as saying -
Everything here (at TPC) is the opposite of Augusta on purpose.
Tom also mentioned that TPC was originally built to be a low maintenance golf course.
Thoughts?
Atb

PS - This is the Podcast. All about the making of TPC with many different contributors. Well worth a listen -


https://thefriedegg.podbean.com/e/fried-egg-stories-episode-4-alligator-pit-the-making-of-tpc-sawgrass/
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 05:35:49 PM by Thomas Dai »

Tom_Doak

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Re: TPC Sawgrass vrs ANGC
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2020, 09:36:29 PM »
Mr. Dye delivered that quote to the press during the first playing of the TPC at Sawgrass, in 1982.  Some of the players were comparing the course to Augusta [unfavorably] and Pete was just pointing out that Augusta was not his ideal.


Pete's take was that it was his role to design the course [which is what he got paid for], and the players' responsibility to figure out how to shoot their lowest score [which is what they get paid for].  Commissioner Beman was entirely on board with that; it was as much his idea as Pete's to make the course difficult and testing, to illustrate how GOOD the players were.


[NOTE that most designers cannot take the same view.  The TPC Sawgrass is home to The Players Championship; it's an important event so all the players are going to play there, and they've got to deal with its vagaries whether they like it or not.  If I do the same thing in Houston, a lot of players just skip it.  Today's PGA TOUR execs and officials leverage that power by suggesting to the tournament sponsor and host course that any potentially controversial design feature will cause players to stay home and the tournament to draw fewer spectators.]


The TPC at Sawgrass was not about length at all; it was kind of short by the standards of the day.  The way Pete used angles actually makes it difficult to maintain a good angle to the green the longer you hit it off the tee, which is one reason his courses hold up so well.  Howard Twitty said that week the course was too short, and that was one of the only comments that Pete took seriously.  When we did the plan for the Stadium Course at PGA West, it was 300 yards longer - which is once again short by the standards of today.




jeffwarne

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Re: TPC Sawgrass vrs ANGC
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2020, 10:36:27 PM »
Ironically, as opposite as they started, nearly every change they've made at TPC brings it closer to ANGC (way less Palmetto bushes,more pine straw,overseeded rough) and every ANGC change brings it closer to TPC, (narrowed corridors, second cut)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

JMEvensky

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Re: TPC Sawgrass vrs ANGC
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2020, 06:42:56 AM »

Ironically, as opposite as they started, nearly every change they've made at TPC brings it closer to ANGC (way less Palmetto bushes,more pine straw,overseeded rough)





Agree--but I've always assumed this was to make it more palatable for the high handicap paying guests. I'm not sure it mattered too much to the PGAT players.




Jeff_Brauer

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Re: TPC Sawgrass vrs ANGC
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2020, 10:24:56 AM »
Always heard it was nearly impossible to maintain sandy waste areas as intended.  Stuff just grows too well in Florida's climate.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tom_Doak

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Re: TPC Sawgrass vrs ANGC
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2020, 12:19:49 PM »
Always heard it was nearly impossible to maintain sandy waste areas as intended.  Stuff just grows too well in Florida's climate.


True that.  Pete's original idea was that they would just drag the bunkers once every few days with a drag mat behind a tractor, but it only took a year or two before they became overgrown with grass!


When you see open sand on Florida courses, they may not have to do much in the winter months to keep grasses and weeds from taking over, but in the growing season they are likely using Roundup on a regular basis to keep them at bay.  Which turns out to be not the best solution, environmentally speaking.

Thomas Dai

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Re: TPC Sawgrass vrs ANGC
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2020, 08:22:31 AM »
Thanks for these insights Tom.
Watching the 1987 TPC as I type. Players using persimmon and balata and some even hitting woods for their second shots!
Viewed recently on social media some photos of earlier days there when things were more rustic in appearance and maintenance prep terms.
And hasn’t TV picture quality changed over the decades.
Atb

cary lichtenstein

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Re: TPC Sawgrass vrs ANGC
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2020, 07:58:02 PM »
I played the TPC the weekend after the first tournament and it was impossible

Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

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