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Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2020, 11:36:43 AM »
Also this Kalen, from another source...


"And, at your direction, Medicare and Medicaid, last week, already made it clear to Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries that coronavirus testing and treatment would be covered.  These private insurance carriers have extended that as well."


Having enquired of my insurer today, the issue is not who will pay for it, but whether CDC approves the test due to limited availability of testing kits. Therefore we have to sit in our house waiting for my daughter to get sick before we get a test.. so rather than test someone  now whose exposure is already documented, I will have to plough through 300 angry, sick people at the local right when my 10 yr old needs a respirator.


Solid plan.
Next!

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2020, 12:34:41 PM »
Might as well tackle this with a complete lack of rational commentary...


Well done!


Question for you; if your daughter was administered the test today, and it came back positive, what would you do? I suspect it's not one ounce different than what you're already doing to protect her.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2020, 12:49:52 PM »
No chance October AG?
Jeff,

That's a good question, but I'm still going to say no.  I don't see those guys having their tournament shoehorned into the schedule and competing with college football and the NFL, as well as running the risk that the course won't be the way that they want it to be.  I think they are likely to not have it at all if they can't do it exactly the way they want to.


And this presumes that we're gong to be back to "normal" by then anyway.  My understanding is that the 1918 flu pandemic had a second wave in the fall when it hit the southern hemisphere that was actually worse in terms of the death rate, including in the US, than the first wave during the "flu season".  One of the problems with this thing is that we don't yet know if people who have it and recover are gaining immunity to a second infection or not; maybe by then we will know that, but we don't right now.


Point taken re Fall return of possible outbreak.
October the course would be presented incredibly IF they made the decision NOT to overseed.
Let's see how forward thinking they are-they are very forward thinkingin nearly every aspect of running an event.


College football is HUGE in the south.
The Masters is not competing with college football-not even close as The Masters is HUGE worldwide.
By October SOME college football games are very important due to limited playoff berths, there are NO critical games in pro football in October.
Who's missing the back nine on Sunday for another week of pro football...
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2020, 12:54:30 PM »
Jeff:


There's also another sport where being Mr. October is important.


I'm sure they won't mind competing for eyeballs one bit, if things are back to normal come October.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2020, 01:03:48 PM »
Given the tournament that identifies the true-est champion of the year is already cancelled (Players with the strongest field), don't see why they need to re-schedule the Masters with the weakest one...  ;)

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2020, 02:00:28 PM »
Given the tournament that identifies the true-est champion of the year is already cancelled (Players with the strongest field), don't see why they need to re-schedule the Masters with the weakest one...  ;)


Like Kim Si-woo who's made 4 of 13 cuts in real majors, Tim Clark and Stephen Ames?
Pondgrass type courses identify one dimension in a player's game, and .... majors don't have island greens.
Besides, smaller weaker fields can finish by darkness in October :)
To be fair there have been some pretty good champions at TPC over the years
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #56 on: March 13, 2020, 02:01:02 PM »
No chance October AG?
Jeff,

That's a good question, but I'm still going to say no.  I don't see those guys having their tournament shoehorned into the schedule and competing with college football and the NFL, as well as running the risk that the course won't be the way that they want it to be.  I think they are likely to not have it at all if they can't do it exactly the way they want to.


And this presumes that we're gong to be back to "normal" by then anyway.  My understanding is that the 1918 flu pandemic had a second wave in the fall when it hit the southern hemisphere that was actually worse in terms of the death rate, including in the US, than the first wave during the "flu season".  One of the problems with this thing is that we don't yet know if people who have it and recover are gaining immunity to a second infection or not; maybe by then we will know that, but we don't right now.


Point taken re Fall return of possible outbreak.
October the course would be presented incredibly IF they made the decision NOT to overseed.
Let's see how forward thinking they are-they are very forward thinkingin nearly every aspect of running an event.


College football is HUGE in the south.
The Masters is not competing with college football-not even close as The Masters is HUGE worldwide.
By October SOME college football games are very important due to limited playoff berths, there are NO critical games in pro football in October.
Who's missing the back nine on Sunday for another week of pro football...
Jeff,

You likely know this better than I, but is the Bermuda at ANGC a modern hybrid comparable to the grasses at other courses, or is it the old "common Bermuda" that used to be on courses all over the Southeast? 


I ask that because I assume that the Bermuda that's there, whatever it is, isn't a playing surface at the club at all, given the dates of operation of the club.  Would the course in October look like East Lake looks in October, and would it provide the sort of playing conditions that East Lake has provided for the Tour Championship?  I have my doubts, and I don't see those guys showing that course in anything but the best light.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #57 on: March 13, 2020, 02:22:21 PM »
No chance October AG?
Jeff,

That's a good question, but I'm still going to say no.  I don't see those guys having their tournament shoehorned into the schedule and competing with college football and the NFL, as well as running the risk that the course won't be the way that they want it to be.  I think they are likely to not have it at all if they can't do it exactly the way they want to.


And this presumes that we're gong to be back to "normal" by then anyway.  My understanding is that the 1918 flu pandemic had a second wave in the fall when it hit the southern hemisphere that was actually worse in terms of the death rate, including in the US, than the first wave during the "flu season".  One of the problems with this thing is that we don't yet know if people who have it and recover are gaining immunity to a second infection or not; maybe by then we will know that, but we don't right now.


Point taken re Fall return of possible outbreak.
October the course would be presented incredibly IF they made the decision NOT to overseed.
Let's see how forward thinking they are-they are very forward thinkingin nearly every aspect of running an event.


College football is HUGE in the south.
The Masters is not competing with college football-not even close as The Masters is HUGE worldwide.
By October SOME college football games are very important due to limited playoff berths, there are NO critical games in pro football in October.
Who's missing the back nine on Sunday for another week of pro football...
Jeff,

You likely know this better than I, but is the Bermuda at ANGC a modern hybrid comparable to the grasses at other courses, or is it the old "common Bermuda" that used to be on courses all over the Southeast? 


I ask that because I assume that the Bermuda that's there, whatever it is, isn't a playing surface at the club at all, given the dates of operation of the club.  Would the course in October look like East Lake looks in October, and would it provide the sort of playing conditions that East Lake has provided for the Tour Championship?  I have my doubts, and I don't see those guys showing that course in anything but the best light.


That is an interesting question.
Very hard to believe it would be common bermuda as the bermuda can get going in a warm February March and certainly April.


Interestingly, Royal Melbourne, with incredible fairways, uses common bermuda-and it played wonderfully. (fescue surrounds, bent greens)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2020, 02:26:12 PM »
Might as well tackle this with a complete lack of rational commentary...


Well done!


Question for you; if your daughter was administered the test today, and it came back positive, what would you do? I suspect it's not one ounce different than what you're already doing to protect her.


Jim - Are you a doctor? If so, you’re not qualified to ask that question. If you’re not an infectious disease specialist you’re not qualified to answer it.


Setting that aside, here’s the ‘rationality’ you seek. Leaving aside the implications to my daughter’s health, the advice from my wife’s uncle (a Harvard-trained pediatric specialist) is that you have to go to Children’s Hospital in Boston for proper treatment once your child shows symptoms. If she’s already been diagnosed, there would be protocol for admitting her that would expose as few people as possible to transmission. If she has not been diagnosed yet, she would be subject to the same admission procedure as every other parent storming the ER at that time - thus exposing her to many people who likely don’t yet have COVID-19 and are not taking the proper protection protocols.


Perhaps this conversation isn’t strictly on GCA topic, but I find life goes better when you recognize the limits of your own knowledge and instead listen to the experts, as I am doing in this case.


Next!

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2020, 02:42:19 PM »
Given the tournament that identifies the true-est champion of the year is already cancelled (Players with the strongest field), don't see why they need to re-schedule the Masters with the weakest one...  ;)


Like Kim Si-woo who's made 4 of 13 cuts in real majors, Tim Clark and Stephen Ames?
Pondgrass type courses identify one dimension in a player's game, and .... majors don't have island greens.
Besides, smaller weaker fields can finish by darkness in October :)
To be fair there have been some pretty good champions at TPC over the years


Jeff,


The Players could have a bunch of repeat winners and epics Sundays too.  All they gotta do is limit the field to the top 50, and then invite a few Amateurs and past champions who can't break 80 anymore.  Why stop there thou.  How about you only get to play in the Players if you've won 2 majors or more, then it'd be an almost guaranteed epic event!!  ;)

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #60 on: March 13, 2020, 02:49:20 PM »
Given the tournament that identifies the true-est champion of the year is already cancelled (Players with the strongest field), don't see why they need to re-schedule the Masters with the weakest one...  ;)


Like Kim Si-woo who's made 4 of 13 cuts in real majors, Tim Clark and Stephen Ames?
Pondgrass type courses identify one dimension in a player's game, and .... majors don't have island greens.
Besides, smaller weaker fields can finish by darkness in October :)
To be fair there have been some pretty good champions at TPC over the years


Jeff,


The Players could have a bunch of repeat winners and epics Sundays too.  All they gotta do is limit the field to the top 50, and then invite a few Amateurs and past champions who can't break 80 anymore.  Why stop there thou.  How about you only get to play in the Players if you've won 2 majors or more, then it'd be an almost guaranteed epic event!!  ;)


That is great idea!
True as well :)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2020, 03:49:15 PM »
Anthony - all the best to your daughter. This is a big deal to all of us for similar reasons.


When the tone shifts to blaming the President for an untreatable virus spreading over the globe I can’t help but... ::) ::)


Best




Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2020, 04:38:36 PM »

That is an interesting question.
Very hard to believe it would be common bermuda as the bermuda can get going in a warm February March and certainly April.

Interestingly, Royal Melbourne, with incredible fairways, uses common bermuda-and it played wonderfully. (fescue surrounds, bent greens)




Correction:  Royal Melbourne USED TO BE common bermuda in the fairways.  They changed to Legend bermuda [aka Legend couchgrass] about 15 years ago. 


Legend isn't always the greatest, either; it was chosen so the ball WOULDN'T roll out so much when it went dormant, because so many fairways at Royal Melbourne are on slopes.  But it sure was great for the Presidents' Cup, and for those who visited before the Renaissance Cup last month.

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #63 on: March 14, 2020, 10:22:49 AM »
Question: When people talk today about 'common' bermuda, are they talking about '419' or one of the older, coarser 'field' or 'fence post' varieties?


Bob

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #64 on: March 14, 2020, 12:01:57 PM »
Question: When people talk today about 'common' bermuda, are they talking about '419' or one of the older, coarser 'field' or 'fence post' varieties?


Bob


Bob, I was not referring to 419, but rather older leafier versions common in the 60's and early 70's and leftover on many low budge courses in the south until somewhat recently..
Tom corrected me --I asked that same question at RM.
Legend is quite leafy and looks a lot like common to me.
Was a wonderful surface, one many wouldn't choose today in our never ending quest for fast and tight where I belive we've jumped the shark.
Glad to see RM do what they did and it's a joy to see average players actually get a club one the ball, rather than the bottom groove.
Firm is really fun and doesn't have to be overly fast too as too fast eliminates sidehill lies and a lot of strategy when gravity takes all balls to same areas.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 07:21:29 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #65 on: March 14, 2020, 01:51:32 PM »

That is an interesting question.
Very hard to believe it would be common bermuda as the bermuda can get going in a warm February March and certainly April.

Interestingly, Royal Melbourne, with incredible fairways, uses common bermuda-and it played wonderfully. (fescue surrounds, bent greens)




Correction:  Royal Melbourne USED TO BE common bermuda in the fairways.  They changed to Legend bermuda [aka Legend couchgrass] about 15 years ago. 


Legend isn't always the greatest, either; it was chosen so the ball WOULDN'T roll out so much when it went dormant, because so many fairways at Royal Melbourne are on slopes.  But it sure was great for the Presidents' Cup, and for those who visited before the Renaissance Cup last month.
Tom, do you know what the Bermuda is at ANGC?
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #66 on: March 14, 2020, 01:57:37 PM »
Anthony - all the best to your daughter. This is a big deal to all of us for similar reasons.


When the tone shifts to blaming the President for an untreatable virus spreading over the globe I can’t help but... ::) ::)


Best
Jim,
To be fair, I don't think anybody blames the president for "an untreatable virus spreading over the globe". 


I think that many people consider the things that he has said over the past several weeks to have been at best unhelpful in preparing the public for what the US is going to be facing in the coming months.  From saying that the folks on the cruise ship ought to stay there so the numbers wouldn't look worse, to saying that he didn't need to be tested because it was no big deal, I think many in the public health sector and the all levels of national, state, and local levels have considered it to be highly unfortunate leadership.  It seems a fair criticism.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #67 on: March 14, 2020, 04:44:41 PM »
The virus is a Democrat hoax, per the Orange One. If it is really a pandemic, it’s Obama’s fault. If there’s been a messaging problem or a test kit delivery problem, Trump bears no responsibility for it. And he’s told he’s been close to several people now diagnosed with the virus and he holds a press conference and shakes every speaker’s hand.


That’s leadership.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #68 on: March 14, 2020, 05:11:15 PM »
The virus is a Democrat hoax, per the Orange One. If it is really a pandemic, it’s Obama’s fault. If there’s been a messaging problem or a test kit delivery problem, Trump bears no responsibility for it. And he’s told he’s been close to several people now diagnosed with the virus and he holds a press conference and shakes every speaker’s hand.

That’s leadership.


I know 2 people, whom i thankfully haven't interacted with personally, who are displaying all the symptoms and were in high risk zones recently, but can't get tested because they aren't in a "at-risk" category.  Fantastic leadership indeed...

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2020, 10:29:26 AM »
The virus is a Democrat hoax, per the Orange One. If it is really a pandemic, it’s Obama’s fault. If there’s been a messaging problem or a test kit delivery problem, Trump bears no responsibility for it. And he’s told he’s been close to several people now diagnosed with the virus and he holds a press conference and shakes every speaker’s hand.

That’s leadership.


I know 2 people, whom i thankfully haven't interacted with personally, who are displaying all the symptoms and were in high risk zones recently, but can't get tested because they aren't in a "at-risk" category.  Fantastic leadership indeed...


I didn’t actually mention anything about Trump in my original post on this matter, but since we’re going there...


Here’s the problem with the protocol and the lack of available testing. Someone in my daughter’s class was exposed to someone who has tested positive for COVID-19. This child started showing symptoms on the same day the school shut down (Thursday 12th). When I called the Aetna hotline to find out about testing they gave me a number that I assume has something to do with the CDC (although their outgoing message was not clear on exactly who I had reached).  Left a message for them which was finally returned on Monday.


The upshot of it is that only when my daughter begins to show symptoms would they approve a test. Given the lack
of available testing kits that is understandable. Meanwhile the first child got a test on Friday and as of 5pm yesterday the results are still not available. As a result, we have had to self-quarantine, my in-laws have done the same, and no-one has been able to see my wife’s 95-year-old grandmother who lives about 10 miles away from us.


Only when that test result becomes available will we know if my daughter needs to be tested and then have to go through an extensive administrative process to get that test.  Since she is not showing any symptoms and we are starting our 6th day of self-quarantine, it appears we may have dodged that bullet. If she did need medical intervention, it would at one of three locations here in the Boston area, all of which would likely be overwhelmed in the next couple of days.


What is the current administration’s culpability in all this?  Disbanding the White House infectious disease response team set up during the Obama Administration was not in retrospect a great idea. The fact Trump lied to the American people when there is video of a Rise Garden event from 2018 where he announces this decision does not inspire confidence or compliance in any future directive from the White House.


Obama living rent-free in the condo hustler’s head for the last three years was an ironic and amusing side thought to the catastrophe of the last three years. Given the fact this racial animus will likely lead to the loss of  hundreds and perhaps thousands of American lives over the next few months, it is not so funny any more.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 12:21:30 PM by Anthony Butler »
Next!

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2020, 11:58:38 AM »
Please don't turn this board into Facebook or Twitter.  There has to be some safe space from all of that, especially now.  Go over there if you want to unload.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2020, 12:44:30 PM »
Bernie,


Agreed. I’ve never been on any sort of social media other than this site, but you’re right that we needn’t litter this space with any chatter about him.



Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #72 on: March 17, 2020, 12:53:43 PM »
Please don't turn this board into Facebook or Twitter.  There has to be some safe space from all of that, especially now.  Go over there if you want to unload.
Bernie Bell,
With all due respect, arguably it was YOU in reply #28 back on 3/12 that took the thread in a political direction for the first time by an unwarranted reaction to Ulrich Mayring's post, which began with a statement that the Masters wouldn't be played, and ended with a statement that the reality of the situation might sink in when players tested positive.  Of course, later that night, two NBA players who felt fine and were preparing to play a game that night tested positive; by the next afternoon, cancellations of athletic events were occurring all over the country, and by the weekend, The Masters had in fact been at least postponed, just as Ulrich had predicted.

I'd add two other things:  First, the primary reason for the social distancing measures being taken is more about slowing the RATE of infection so that the healthcare system in the US doesn't get overwhelmed.  There are 45,000 ICU beds in the US, and we're now slightly AHEAD of where Italy was two weeks ago in the growth rate of infections; Ulrich expressed that very concern.  And second, the thread is (and was from the first!) about the relationship between golf and the virus, rather than GCA specifically.  Not liking the direction of a discussion can be dealt with by simply not reading it, and there are plenty of threads that do NOT discuss the virus, including the reaction of elected officials to it and what they have or have not done to prepare for it and deal with it. 


I'm assuming that you are a supporter of the president, which is fine.  That he has done an about face in the last 48 hours, at least in terms of what he has said to the American public is completely undeniable, though.  We'll never know what difference it might have made if he, among others like the Democratic mayor of NYC, had listened to the available science and been proactive earlier.  But it's a valid question, and not at all OB for discussion on a golf board when it appears likely that within a few days we might arrive at a place where few, if any, of us are able to play golf for an extended period.

There is a multitude of smart people on this board, and I like reading their thoughts; when I don't, I tune them out.  But there is nothing in THIS discussion that isn't appropriate to this board, assuming that there are going to always be non-architecture threads.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #73 on: March 17, 2020, 01:31:52 PM »
My reply #28 was an ill-considered and unduly aggressive attempt to make the same request, not attempting to make a political point there.  If I had one, you'd know it.  You can assume whatever you want about me and the President; you'll probably be wrong, but who cares?  Sure I can skip threads if they're appropriately labeled, like the current "hate" thread (get enough hate elsewhere, thanks).  If you want to have a thread called Donald Trump Is A Big Fat Idiot Who Will Kill Us All, go for it.  Easily avoided.  Otherwise my plea would be to steer clear of it.  Obviously it's a free board, you can do whatever you like as long as the moderators permit it.  I just don't think it's for the good of the order.

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Masters with no ‘patrons’
« Reply #74 on: March 17, 2020, 04:44:46 PM »
Bernie, no hard feelings on my side. The end result of your remark probably was that some people woke up to the harsh reality we are facing, which I think is a positive result.

As to Trump, like him or not, he is one of the most important figures in this, because he basically presides over the health of 320 million Americans, who like to travel a lot. Imagine that Xi Jinping (again, think of him what you will) had acted carelessly and unleashed about a billion of his virus carriers upon the world. Nobody would accept that and we can't have it from Trump either.
Now, however irresponsibly Trump may have acted, he can still put this right. The Chinese were in denial mode all December and January, so they were not any better. Italy wasn't any better at first and perhaps other countries as well. But, it DOESN'T MATTER. What matters is what our leaders including Trump are going to do NOW going forward.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)