Pittsburgh golf

[Paul Richards]

What are the best courses in Pittsburgh?

What are the best private?

What are the best public?

Rank them?

[TEPaul]

The ones I know:

Oakmont
Fox Chapel
Pittsburgh Field Club
Allegheny
Longue Vue

[Bill_McBride]

I was talking to a guy who recently retired and moved to Pensacola to escape the winters.  He is a member of Pittsburgh Field Club.  Apparently they have a very liberal reciprocity policy in the area where members of Oakmont, Pittsburgh Field Club, Fox Chapel and one more (Laurel Valley?) can play back and forth on a very reasonable basis.  Sounds great!  Fox Chapel looked very good on TV last summer.  If the others are as challenging and interesting as Oakmont, that would be a great arrangement!

[TEPaul]

Real reciprocity, huh? I'd like to hear a bit more about what that means exactly.

[Tim Weiman]

Paul Richards:

On two occasions I've lived in Pittsburgh and found it to be a pretty good place for affordable public golf. Maybe not as good as Cleveland, but still much better than places like New York, Philadelphia or Los Angeles.

Having lived in Bethel Park I used to go down to South Park and pay less than $20 to play. It is a fun hilly course I never found boring to play.

[Paul Richards]

Is Laurel Valley in the area?

[JohnV]

While those four courses may allow reciprocity between themselves, they are probably not as open with others.  Laurel Valley is about 30 miles east of Pittsburgh proper.

I can't really say what are the top courses around here because I haven't gotten the opportunity to see many of them in the 6 months I've been here.  By the end of this summer, I will probably have seen most of the best courses and could give a decent rundown.

If we included the entire area in the southwest of Pennsylvania, probably Sunnehanna, Rolling Rock, Latrobe, Laurel Valley and a few others are deserving of consideration on the private side.  Publically, Nemacolin Woodlands (Mystic Rock), and Olde Stonewall supposedly are the best.

[George Pazin]

Dave S -

Lawyers and the IRS probably have more to say about why this isn't more common.

Paul -

Laurel Valley is probably a good hour drive, though, depending on where in Pittsburgh you start from, it could be twenty minutes or an hour and a half. I haven't had a chance to sample many privates, but among the publics I like Quicksilver (former host of the Pittsburgh Senior Classic) for value & Mystic Rock if cash is no consideration. Olde Stonewall was fun & I would play there tomorrow if it weren't covered with snow & way overpriced.

What Pittsburgh does really well (aside from the top notch privates) is provides lots of low priced golf for the common man such as myself. North Park, South Park, Stoughton Acres, Dubsdread, Deer Run (I could go on & on & on) - are all entertaining layouts that can be walked for about $20, less if you catch them at the right time. There are two new publics I am looking forward to checking out this summer: Cranberry Highlands & Birdsfoot.

If per chance you are going to be in the Burgh, please look me up for a beer - despite my continual involvement in political threads on GCA (I'm working on that, haven't posted anything on current ANGC threads), I'm actually a pretty friendly guy.

P.S. I don't really believe in rankings, but among privates I'd say most people would favor Tom P's list in that order. I've also heard good things about Edgewood CC & St Clair CC. Among publics, I'd put MR 1st, Quicksilver 2nd & OS 3rd among courses I've played. The only publics I would consciously avoid are Venago Trails & Pittsburgh North.

P.P.S. If you're a walker (& who on this board isn't:)), the Burgh can be a challenge - we have hills that have their own hills. I love walking & prefer it any day over riding, but many people around here consider riding to be a treat because of the hills.

[Fred_C.]

I've only played Allegheny CC.  It's a fantastic, classic layout with a great feel to it.

FJC

[JohnV]

I can vouch for George being a very nice guy.  Also, if you or anyone else comes to Pittsburgh get in touch with George or I and we'll get together for golf (weather permitting) or at least a few beers.

Other local private courses I've heard good things about include Green Oaks (Ross), Butler and Nemacolin (Tillie).  Just out of town to the northwest is New Castle (Tillie also).  I've also heard that Westmoreland it pretty good.

Toms Run at Chestnut Ridge which is east of town is also supposed to be a good public course.

[Paul Richards]

thanks to all who have responded so far:

the following list is from my "every course that has ever appeared on any magazine's list" list.  Can someone break out the ones that are, say, within an hour's drive or so of Pittsburgh for me?  


OAKMONT CC
LAUREL VALLEY GC
HUNTSVILLE GC
SAUCON VALLEY CC (OLD)
SAUCON VALLEY CC (GRACE)
ROLLING GREEN GC
PHILADELPHIA CC (SPRING MILL)
SAUCON VALLEY CC(WEYHILL)
HUNTINGDON VALLEY CC
LANCASTER CC (MDW CRK/DGWD)
MOSELEM SPRINGS GC
SUNNEHANNA CC
FOX CHAPEL GC
(OLDE)STONEWALL GC
STONEWALL
PITTSBURGH FIELD C
GLENMAURA NATIONAL GC
HARTEFELD NATIONAL GC
MANUFACTURERS G & CC
COMMONWEALTH NATL CC
PHILADELPHIA CRICKET C
LOOKAWAY GC
WHITEMARSH VALLEY CC
INNISCRONE GC
HERSHEY CC (WEST)
SEWICKLEY HEIGHTS GC
WYNCOTE GC
SHAWNEE CC
TAMIMENT-IN-THE-POCONOS CLUB
GREAT BEAR G & CC
TALAMORE AT OAK TERRACE CC
THE C AT NEVILLEWOOD
NEMACOLIN WOODLANDS(MYSTIC ROCK)
TOFTREES RESORT
ROYAL OAKS GC
TOM'S RUN GC
EAGLE LODGE CC
CHAMPION LAKES GC
CENTER VALLEY C
TREASURE LAKE GC(GOLD)
HERSHEY PARKVIEW
LEHIGH CC
GC AT GLEN MILLS
LINKS AT GETTYSBURG
PENN NATIONAL GC(IRON FORGE)

[George Pazin]

My guesses from downtown (in Pittsburgh, pronouced dawnntawnn, kinda nasaly):

OAKMONT CC - 20 m
LAUREL VALLEY GC - 1 h
HUNTSVILLE GC - don't know
SAUCON VALLEY CC (OLD) - 5 h
SAUCON VALLEY CC (GRACE) - 5 h
ROLLING GREEN GC - 1 h 15 m
PHILADELPHIA CC (SPRING MILL) - 5 h 30 m
SAUCON VALLEY CC(WEYHILL) - 5 h
HUNTINGDON VALLEY CC - 5 h 30 m
LANCASTER CC (MDW CRK/DGWD) - 4 h
MOSELEM SPRINGS GC ?
SUNNEHANNA CC - 2 h (2 aunts live right around the corner:))
FOX CHAPEL GC - 20 m
(OLDE)STONEWALL GC - 50 m
STONEWALL - 6 h
PITTSBURGH FIELD C - 20 m (30 seconds from Fox Chapel:))
GLENMAURA NATIONAL GC - ?
HARTEFELD NATIONAL GC - 6 h
MANUFACTURERS G & CC - 5 h 30 m
COMMONWEALTH NATL CC - ?
PHILADELPHIA CRICKET C - 5 h 30 m
LOOKAWAY GC - ?
WHITEMARSH VALLEY CC - ?
INNISCRONE GC - 5 h 30 m
HERSHEY CC (WEST) - 4 h
SEWICKLEY HEIGHTS GC - 25 m
WYNCOTE GC - ?
SHAWNEE CC - ?
TAMIMENT-IN-THE-POCONOS CLUB - 7 h
GREAT BEAR G & CC - ?
TALAMORE AT OAK TERRACE CC
THE C AT NEVILLEWOOD - 20 m
NEMACOLIN WOODLANDS(MYSTIC ROCK) - 1 h
TOFTREES RESORT - ?
ROYAL OAKS GC - ?
TOM'S RUN GC - 1 h 15 m
EAGLE LODGE CC - ?
CHAMPION LAKES GC - 45 m
CENTER VALLEY C - ?
TREASURE LAKE GC(GOLD) - ?
HERSHEY PARKVIEW - 4 h
LEHIGH CC - 4 h 30 m
GC AT GLEN MILLS - 6 h
LINKS AT GETTYSBURG - 3 h 30 m
PENN NATIONAL GC(IRON FORGE) - 3 h 30 m

My new house (6 whole days) - 25 m
Pine Valley - 6 h
Merion - 5 h 30 m
NGLA - 10 h
Sand Hills - 19 h
Pacific Dunes - 4 days
Barnbougle Dunes - 12 months & counting down...


Thanks, JV - 1 down, 799 to go...

[George Pazin]

Shoulda read more closely -

OAKMONT CC - 20 m
LAUREL VALLEY GC - 1 h
FOX CHAPEL GC - 20 m
(OLDE)STONEWALL GC - 50 m
PITTSBURGH FIELD C - 20 m (30 seconds from Fox Chapel:))
SEWICKLEY HEIGHTS GC - 25 m
THE C AT NEVILLEWOOD - 20 m
NEMACOLIN WOODLANDS(MYSTIC ROCK) - 1 h
TOM'S RUN GC - 1 h 15 m
CHAMPION LAKES GC - 45 m

You skipped Allegheny CC - 25 m

My new house (6 whole days) - 25 m

[Paul Richards]

George:

That is very helpful!   Thanks.

Maybe I should 'play through' your house during my visit?

[TEPaul]

JohnV:

I played in a state Open at Butler (maybe 45 minutes north of Pittsburgh?) many years ago and I've never forgotten the course but until you mentioned it I never knew it was a Tillinghast course. Well, no wonder I've never forgotten it!!

[Tim Weiman]

George Pazin:

What does it cost to play South Park these days? How difficult is it to get on during the summer?

[Bill_McBride]

Tom Paul, I really don't know anything more about the "reciprocity" deal than I mentioned.  The Fox Chapel member did mention that it involved just four clubs.  Is there anything similar in Philadelphia area?  I was a member of a club in Northern Virginia and we used to host each other back and forth but full guest fees were paid.  I did get to play Columbia, Congressional, Robert Trent Jones International, a few others that way, but was worth it.  For what it's worth, it's interesting that DC area has relatively few top ranked golf courses.  I think it's the terrain, lots of ridges and therefore lots of blind tee shots.

[George Pazin]

Tim -

I'm not sure about South Park, but North Park, the other County course, is $15 to walk weekdays & $18 weekends. I'm assuming South Park would be the same.

As far as getting on goes, usually weekday waits average about 15-20 minutes, weekends about 30-45 (again for North Park). On Saturday mornings, I've walked on to the tee with no wait & I've had as much as an hour wait. Usually if the wait looks 45 minutes+, I head for another public course.

Of course, all of this presumes you don't tell anyone in Pittsburgh you're from Cleveland.

[George Pazin]

 I think it's the terrain, lots of ridges and therefore lots of blind tee shots.

Interesting observation - based on my trips to DC, I can't imagine you have more severe terrain than us.

[JohnV]

Tom Paul,  Tillie did New Castle and Nemacolin.  My boss thinks that Bendelow did 9 holes at Butler and Ault did the other 9.  He isn't sure if they are separate nines or if they interspersed the new with the old.  I don't have my C&W at work so I can't look it up.  Sorry for the confusion.

[Tim Weiman]

George Pazin:

I had two separate one year assignments in Pittsburgh while working for BP. The first was the year of Brian Sipe and the Cardiac Kids. To the local area manager (a hard core Steelers fan), I made the remark that the Browns were the "most exciting team in football". That didn't rule out getting invited for a couple nice golf games, but he sure never forgot it!

I'm happy to hear the Park courses have remained affordable and accessible. During that first assignment in Pittsburgh, South Park was right up the road from my apartment in Bethel Park and I enjoyed playing regularly. For old times sake, I'd love to go back and play it again.

[George Pazin]

For old times sake, I'd love to go back and play it again.

Well, you'll just have to come down & tee it up with JohnV & me.

Two of my best friends from college are from Cleveland. I always told them that, deep down, in their heart of hearts, surely they must be Steeler fans (everyone is), so I would forgive their apparent surface affection for the Browns.

[JohnV]

I'm not a Steelers fan, but I loved how the PennDot electronic warning signs were set to say "Welcome to Mordor" for all the Browns fans who came down for the playoff game with the Steelers this past season.

[JohnV]

To add to George's time list, both Toftrees and Centre Valley are near Penn State and about 3 hours from Pittsburgh.

I'm 20 minutes from Downtown and only about 2 minutes from Oakmont CC.

[Paul Richards]

So the Pittsburgh-area list should read:

OAKMONT CC - 20 m
LAUREL VALLEY GC - 1 h
FOX CHAPEL GC - 20 m
(OLDE)STONEWALL GC - 50 m
PITTSBURGH FIELD C - 20 m (30 seconds from Fox Chapel)
SEWICKLEY HEIGHTS GC - 25 m
THE C AT NEVILLEWOOD - 20 m
NEMACOLIN WOODLANDS(MYSTIC ROCK) - 1 h
TOM'S RUN GC - 1 h 15 m
CHAMPION LAKES GC - 45 m
ALLEGHENY CC - 25 m

SUNNEHANNA
ROLLING ROCK
LATROBE
QUICKSILVER
TOFTREES
CENTRE VALLEY

anyone care to put a 1-10 scale on each of these?