News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2020, 01:56:07 AM »
The reason I asked the question on cheapest price was not to try and wangle a free game or make some point about the cost of high-end golf these days, but really to explore whether I could actually get to play this course. So far no one has been able to advise  :(


What prompted me to ask the question was that I had a conversation recently with a friend who's opinion I value who has played the course and he regards it highly. That does make me want to play it. It also occurs to me that even though we can get a bit uppity with the exclusiveness and cost of the place, there is still some one else who put there heart and soul into designing and building the course and that just for their sake we maybe should maybe try and look by the business model and consider the design. Just a thought.


Niall

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2020, 02:01:25 AM »
I think it's well over a thousand quid per day all in for golf, bed and food. But I haven't checked because once I heard the course was extremely difficult I lost interest as a paying customer.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Greg Gilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2020, 03:02:05 AM »
Pricing is detailed in the UK Golf Guy article above:


" [color=rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.7)]Much has been made of the expense of playing at Ardfin. You may even hear it is £1,560 for a round. Well, it can be. That’s the cost for 24 hours on the property. It includes your accommodation (more on that below) and at least 2 rounds of golf. There are never more than a handful of people on the property at any time so you will be able to play pretty much whenever you want when you are there. There’s also a 9 hole pitch and putt, with another one on the way.[/color]
[color=rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.7)][/size]If you are staying somewhere else on Jura, or nearby Islay, and fancy just a round of golf then you still need to pay the £1,560. I would encourage you to stay, and play as much as you can!! [/color]"


I guess thats GBP3120 per 24 hour stay for a couple. Eye-watering.

David Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2020, 03:07:58 AM »
Tom - I may have broken your 'null set'. I paid for my round (no freeloading here!!) and I think I would have it top 30 in the world (although I've only played half of the top 50 to date).


You don't need special dispensation to play any more, and it's not a 'one time experience' so they're keen for you to return as you can imagine!

There may be a psychological point in all of this as you suggest. 'Gosh, I've played so much for this course I will make sure I enjoy it'. I was quite attuned to this when considering where to rank it but who knows whether that's lurking a bit somewhere deep in my unconsciousness....

Niall - It's £1560 for 24 hours (in reality you get more given travel) on the property. You can play as much golf as you want over that time and it includes accommodation but not food. In the summer you could manage three rounds comfortably. There is no option for playing just a round without staying.


Robin - Many thanks for the comments. It was good fun using the drone (my first time so slightly trepidatious!) I'd love to see the JCB one day, I'm keeping my eye out for deals!!

Clearly it's very, very expensive. We don't hear that so much about other courses at the top end of public play but Ardfin gets it full throttle! For example, I was looking to go to Pebble Beach last year. I was told I needed to stay for 2 nights on the property in order to book a weekend tee time. So the cheapest I could do it for was around $2,500. I know I could have maybe chanced calling in nearer the time but that's hard to do when planning a trip to the other side of the world.

Anyway, I really enjoyed it! As I said in the piece I wrote I think the conditions could hold it back somewhat. You could turn up for your £1,560 and barely be able to stand up for the wind for a couple of days. I know that some have had similar problems on King Island in Australia too. However the course itself is pretty special. Top 5 would be pushing it, but it will be interesting to see where it lands in the next round of ratings now it's getting a bit more play so we can keep having the debate!!
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 03:51:59 AM by David Jones »

David Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2020, 03:51:28 AM »


I guess thats GBP3120 per 24 hour stay for a couple. Eye-watering.


Hi, that's the cost per room so it's £1,560 for a couple rather than £3,120. Cheers

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2020, 05:10:41 AM »
David


Many thanks for that. Interesting you pay for the room and the golf's included. Reminds me of some boys trips when I was younger where one person got the room and then half a dozen sneaked in with their sleeping bags. I wonder if that would work at Ardfin !


Actually your comparison to Pebble Beach is I think quite apt. I did the Pebble Beach thing a few years ago as part of a larger trip and IIRC the cost for the two nights was c.£1,500 but that might also have included a round at Spyglass as well, I can't quite recall. For me that was justifiable as it was part of a larger trip that was also a once in a lifetime thing. Unfortunately I can't say the same about Ardfin. It might make sense for someone flying from the States on a tour but not for some West of Scotland punter looking to hop on the Calmac ferry for an away day of golf.


Niall

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2020, 05:34:35 AM »
I think it's well over a thousand quid per day all in for golf, bed and food. But I haven't checked because once I heard the course was extremely difficult I lost interest as a paying customer.

Ciao
So that's getting on for 40 36 hole days with bacon rolls, sandwiches and chips (fries) at Welshpool? 
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2020, 06:07:13 AM »
I think it's well over a thousand quid per day all in for golf, bed and food. But I haven't checked because once I heard the course was extremely difficult I lost interest as a paying customer.

Ciao
So that's getting on for 40 36 hole days with bacon rolls, sandwiches and chips (fries) at Welshpool?

I do feel as though we had exceptional value for three days golf and some food for £122.00. No rain always helps  8)

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2020, 07:54:33 AM »
I think it's well over a thousand quid per day all in for golf, bed and food. But I haven't checked because once I heard the course was extremely difficult I lost interest as a paying customer.

Ciao
So that's getting on for 40 36 hole days with bacon rolls, sandwiches and chips (fries) at Welshpool?

Or you could stay in Southend and play Dunaverty for a month.

Not to take away from David's tour - it's very good - but I'm having a hard time imagining ever seeing Ardfin. A lot of opportunity cost there.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2020, 08:13:39 AM »


I guess thats GBP3120 per 24 hour stay for a couple. Eye-watering.


Hi, that's the cost per room so it's £1,560 for a couple rather than £3,120. Cheers
Arrive on day 1 and play 54 holes.  Stay overnight for one night and play 54 holes on day 2.  Allowing GBP500 for your room would get you down to ~GBP170 per round.  ;)

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2020, 08:20:02 AM »
There are several people who think it's one of the 25 best courses in the world, including the founder of this site.  But so far the Venn diagram between those guys and guys who have paid to play there appears to be a null set.  Odd!   :-X


Personally, I always get uncomfortable when the praise for any new course just seems too high.  If you tell me a course is great, or top 50, I'm intrigued, but when you tell me it's top five, I start wondering how much the royal treatment affects your judgment.  Call me a doubting Thomas.


There are a few places like this now, where you have to pay so much to be there, that you either have to like it, or shoot yourself afterward for being so foolish.  I have even built one or two such places, but I would never tell anyone they were "top five," even if I thought so!  [I just don't argue when others say it.]  So far, though, I haven't built any that require special dispensation of the owner to play.  I've had some overtures about doing a project like that, but I'm not sure if I will ever agree to do one if I have the chance, unless they offer me the chance to bring unlimited guests.
Couldn't this discussion be about Tara Iti rather than Ardfin? And it is more expensive since almost all of us have to fly for 12+ hours to get to NZ.

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2020, 09:15:07 AM »

Personally, I always get uncomfortable when the praise for any new course just seems too high.  If you tell me a course is great, or top 50, I'm intrigued, but when you tell me it's top five, I start wondering how much the royal treatment affects your judgment.  Call me a doubting Thomas.



Call me crazy, but I fully expect to see St. Patrick's in my personal top 5 after I play it next summer (assuming this stupid covid thing is conquered by then). And I don't think I'm being unrealistic. That property is mindblowing, and you have a long track-record of building some pretty decent courses. So even with no royal treatment ... just rolling up to the course and teeing off ... I'm expecting something that compares favorably with a Dornoch or Shinnecock. No pressure ...

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2020, 09:50:46 AM »
I think it's well over a thousand quid per day all in for golf, bed and food. But I haven't checked because once I heard the course was extremely difficult I lost interest as a paying customer.

Ciao




I've spoken with tow who have played it. "Hard" was the word they used.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2020, 12:26:44 PM »
There are several people who think it's one of the 25 best courses in the world, including the founder of this site.  But so far the Venn diagram between those guys and guys who have paid to play there appears to be a null set.  Odd!   :-X


Personally, I always get uncomfortable when the praise for any new course just seems too high.  If you tell me a course is great, or top 50, I'm intrigued, but when you tell me it's top five, I start wondering how much the royal treatment affects your judgment.  Call me a doubting Thomas.

There are a few places like this now, where you have to pay so much to be there, that you either have to like it, or shoot yourself afterward for being so foolish.  I have even built one or two such places, but I would never tell anyone they were "top five," even if I thought so!  [I just don't argue when others say it.]  So far, though, I haven't built any that require special dispensation of the owner to play.  I've had some overtures about doing a project like that, but I'm not sure if I will ever agree to do one if I have the chance, unless they offer me the chance to bring unlimited guests.
Couldn't this discussion be about Tara Iti rather than Ardfin? And it is more expensive since almost all of us have to fly for 12+ hours to get to NZ.


I had Tara Iti in mind when I made that post, but to be fair you could also play it with any of the 200 members without paying so much.  But one of the things about the "once and done" guest policy is that it forces people to make a pronouncement after one visit, when really no one should say a course is a 10 based on a single visit.  (And, though it's not so pricey, it's fair to point out that Sand Hills' ranking benefits from the same dynamic.  That's precisely where Ric Kayne got the idea for Tara Iti's policy.)


Good to hear that David Jones's opinion was formed without favors; that puts Ardfin higher on my "maybe someday" list.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2020, 01:17:30 PM »
It looks pretty spectacular.
Will I ever play there? I very seriously doubt it.
Am I happy that it's been built, that some folks will get to play it and that its helping contribute to the economy of the area? Yes.
atb

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2020, 03:42:26 PM »
I also played a few rounds recently at Ardfin. I agree - David has done a great job of describing the Ardfin proposition. And when it comes to the course, his video really speaks for itself. Robin is also right - as David acknowledges - that if you see the course amid less clement weather then your impressions will likely be a bit different. Of course you can say this of any course, but i think it applies especially to courses where the canvas is so dramatic.


I played three rounds and the weather (mostly wind) was pretty difficult for two of them. In such circumstances it is unquestionably a very challenging course - in a word, penal. Short par fours like 8 and 9 look alluring on the drone video, but played into a 25mph wind are very, very difficult!


Leaving the weather aside, no question it is a very memorable experience. A strong and challenging course on a dramatic site. I think there are many excellent holes and none you would say are weak. The biggest issue is playability when the weather is tough - there is just not enough margin for error so lots of balls are lost. Over time this will likely be softened, but  the terrain will only allow so much. How much you aim off for weather, and hence playability, in your assessment is a matter of opinion.


 In terms of rankings, comparisons are odious, but to take a topical course - Winged Foot West - which ranks 23 in GOLF magazine. If cost were no object and you only had one round - i think I would send a golfer to Ardfin if you were looking for a memorable experience. If you were a connoisseur of green complexes and want to marinate in US Open history,  maybe you go to Winged Foot.  Personally i don't see it in quite the exalted company some others do, but I do think it belongs in the conversation among the best modern courses i have played, and you will have to see a lot of courses to play one more memorable.


On the issue of cost i would make two points. First, when you compare it to the sorts of prices being charged for high end public venues mentioned like Whistling Straits and Pebble Beach, you can make a decent argument for Ardfin and it would be based in part around exclusivity. There is a whole world of difference between the experience at Ardfin, where you are very likely to have the course to yourself, amid a very dramatic natural setting, and some of these other industrial scale operations where you are extremely aware of the commercial purpose of it all. And that difference has a value, for sure.


Second, many of the world's best courses are socially exclusive and will only ever be accessed if you know the right people. Courses like Ardfin are financially exclusive but are, at least theoretically, accessible to all. Whether you want to pay that much for golf is partly a matter of taste. No question it is a LOT of money and it is 100% rational to say there are many other treats you can savour before you get to that tariff bracket, if ever. It is a course you might hope to play when the stars align but but not one you have to put right up top of the list of a GCA education.


All that said, hats off to Greg Coffey and Bob Harrison. The world of golf is richer for their efforts and I hope many more get to see the course.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2020, 07:01:55 PM »
Philip


A very well written post with many fine points well made. In particular take your point regarding the value of the solitude. In that respect the comparison to Pebble Beach does indeed fall down.


Niall

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2020, 07:06:18 PM »
I think it's well over a thousand quid per day all in for golf, bed and food. But I haven't checked because once I heard the course was extremely difficult I lost interest as a paying customer.

Ciao




I've spoken with tow who have played it. "Hard" was the word they used.


Tony


Most if not all of the reviews speak of the course also being enjoyable and fun. Carnoustie is also hard and I'd play it in a heart beat. I think a hard/difficult/challenging course offers more on repeat plays.


Niall

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2020, 08:14:26 PM »
Niall,


Carnoustie is not even close to Ardfin, LOL


David Jones provided a great hole by hole description on his blog and the drone coverage is simply fantastic, thank you David!!!


Looking at the decidedly small greens at Ardfin along with many par 4's requiring a precise fade or draw off the tee, as well the par 3's being mostly all long forced carries, and there is no bail out on most shots on any hole (as the narrator on the video stated many times "precision is required"), no good misses, only lost balls in a spectacular setting with first class service.


In many ways, it could be a better walk than a play  ;D ;D


I hope to visit someday, I love Scotland golf or otherwise.


cheers







It's all about the golf!

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #69 on: September 26, 2020, 04:24:40 AM »
Carnoustie is not even close to Ardfin, LOL
Ah, great, more insight from someone who has been there.  And if it's that much harder than Carnoustie it must be tough!  One of the great things on this site is the ability to hear from people who have visited courses you haven't been to.



Quote
I hope to visit someday, I love Scotland golf or otherwise.
Oh.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #70 on: September 26, 2020, 07:39:04 AM »
Carnoustie is not even close to Ardfin, LOL
Ah, great, more insight from someone who has been there.  And if it's that much harder than Carnoustie it must be tough!  One of the great things on this site is the ability to hear from people who have visited courses you haven't been to.



Quote
I hope to visit someday, I love Scotland golf or otherwise.
Oh.


.
It's all about the golf!

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ardfin opening finally confirmed...
« Reply #71 on: September 26, 2020, 07:40:36 AM »
I hope you'll excuse me from posting links to my own blog here but I have written a few thousand words on my trip to Ardfin  -


https://www.ukgolfguy.com/ardfin-golf

I was incredibly impressed with the course. While tough it was more playable than I had feared (the weather was pretty benign) and both the setting and routing were magnificent.


I would understand fully though if you'd prefer a more visual approach! I was able to film the course for a couple of hours and have edited into a video here which I hope does it some justice -


https://www.ukgolfguy.com/golf-blog/ardfin-golf-from-the-air



well done David
thank you for the video and insights
cheers
It's all about the golf!

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back