“How dare you”

[Thomas Dai]

“How dare you” is Greta Thunberg’s now famous line but what architectural changes to famous golf courses could the phrase also be applied to?
How about Clifford Roberts ‘revised’ 8th green at ANGC?

What would be some other examples?
Atb

[Erik J. Barzeski]

FWIW, your image isn't appearing.

[Thomas Dai]

FWIW, your image isn't appearing.

Thanks. Now corrected.
atb

[Alex Miller]

Hot take!

[Scott McWethy]

Hot take!





Ouch!

[archie_struthers]

 


Alex and Scott, yes indeed!

[Tom_Doak]

Hot take!

Is that Pine Valley? 


I won't say where I thought it was at first, they would not like the comparison.

[JReese]

Sorry I couldn't resist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLxpgRqxtEA

[OChatriot]

A few years ago, The Addington decided to flatten some humps in the middle of the crumpled 10th fairway, around where you would hit your second shot from. Beggars belief.

[Niall C]

Same question, is the photo in Alex Millers post Pine Valley ?


Niall

[archie_struthers]

 


Yes . Tom Paul and I often talked about the possibility of tree removal at my favorite golf course and it worked out so well on number 9.  The new look there is great!


Think that's all they needed to do on #12. Take out all the trees on the left, expose the existing bunkers, and play ball!

[Alex Miller]

Hot take!

Is that Pine Valley? 


I won't say where I thought it was at first, they would not like the comparison.

Not my picture - I borrowed it from a thread about #12 at PV from last year (yes, this is purportedly that hole).


Initially I thought it might have been Tobacco Road, but from pictures TR does not have the 3-dimensional wallpaper effect that this bunkering has... 

[Niall C]

Archie/Alex


Thanks for confirming.


Pre-comment caveat - I totally accept that it might look much better in real life.


Apart from the scale my biggest problem with this feature is the regular slow curve of the top of the mound allied to a similar straight line at the bottom. Take away the sand and it would be a fairly bland bund. You see that with a lot smaller bunkers that have had the supposed rugged look treatment.


Niall

[Tom_Doak]

Can anyone think of any renovation or restoration (ha) work by Tom Fazio that actually DID fit in with the older stuff on site.  I actually can't think of any, because neither he nor his associates nor the shapers that work on their projects are trying to make it fit in. 


Example:  every added bunker at Riviera is 25-33% too big.

[Tim Martin]

Can anyone think of any renovation or restoration (ha) work by Tom Fazio that actually DID fit in with the older stuff on site.  I actually can't think of any, because neither he nor his associates nor the shapers that work on their projects are trying to make it fit in. 


Example:  every added bunker at Riviera is 25-33% too big.

Tom-I can think of two Golden Age courses right off the bat where the bunker shapes and sizes are reflective of Fazio and not the original architect. It’s the “Fazio Flourish”.

[Stewart Abramson]

Hot take!

Is that Pine Valley? 


I won't say where I thought it was at first, they would not like the comparison.

It is #12 at PV, but it's from a weird perspective. I think it is from a view of someone who hit a short slice off the tee, or perhaps a very forward tee that's further right than the other tee areas. Here's a view from the middle tee with a little zoom.



Pine Valley #12 from tee

[Joel_Stewart]

The work is being crucified on Twitter as well.


I'm wondering if it's Tom, Logan or Marzolf?  I'm assuming Tom is still on the board at PV and the consulting architect even though he's supposedly retired.


It won't take long (I'm guessing 10 years) before it's fixed by someone else.  Courses such as Oak Hill, Inverness, Bel Air, Merion have all moved on to other architects.

[Brent Carlson]

A few years ago, The Addington decided to flatten some humps in the middle of the crumpled 10th fairway, around where you would hit your second shot from. Beggars belief.

That's a damn shame.  It's what makes classic courses unique.  You can actually see the fairway work on Google maps.  What was the nature of the humps before?  Perhaps Clayton, Devries and Post can restore that feature.

[PCCraig]

I'm confused, what exactly is so wrong about the bunkering on the 12th at PV above? Not historically accurate?

[Niall C]

Pat

Only speaking for myself, the first photo with the bunkering up the left simply looks rubbish for the reasons stated. They have tried to make a very unnatural looking bund look natural by covering it with a long frilly edged "natural" look bunker that looks anything but natural, so it's a fail on two counts.

The second photo of the carry bunker looks better as at least the hollow looks like a natural feature, but again they have draped a frilly edged bunker over it and it just doesn't look right to me. Basically it looks too new. It may weather in nicely and as I said perhaps it looks much better in real life.

Am I being too harsh ?

Niall

[archie_struthers]

 




It's not just the in your face look of the bunkering but the tree line. Previously , though overgrown, it was random. Not the staccato like line we see here.


I'm confident they will fix it over time, or at least hopeful.

[PCCraig]

Am I being too harsh ?

Niall -


I think so?

[Adam Clayman]

The erosion found in nature, looks nothing like these frills.


I highly doubt anyone critical will get their bucket list checked.


Good luck Pat.

[Niall C]

Thanks Pat, I can but dream that one day I'll find out for myself.

Niall

[Sean Leary]

I’d like to see a recent before and after picture from the tee box, as the first picture here is from an odd angle. 


I have heard it looks better in person, and that the color of the sand looks better now.  Again, why trees weren’t just removed on the left for a season to start to see what you had before a decision to change it seems very odd.  There are people there who absolutely know what they are doing. The rest of the work there seems well done from pics ( I haven’t been there in 13 years). 


 This just seems like an attempt to create a modern frilly bunker look.  If you took a close up picture (black and white) of a bunker without saying where it was and asked the forum who the architect was, it would be interesting to see the answers. 😂