Do you think you can sell nine holes to members (circa 2020)

[archie_struthers]

 


I'm thinking about this a lot and of course location is paramount to success. Would you join a nine holer that was good ?
Believe it or not I think ten holes might be better, complete with a scorecard designating five hole front nine and back.


Throw in a neat practice area and you might make it work.

[Ben Hollerbach]

There are currently 9 hole only private clubs that seem to do well. The Dunes and Whitinsville come to mind. Sweetens Cove supposedly has a full membership of founding members when they go private in the near future.

[archie_struthers]

 


The closest private nine holer to me is Merchantville on the Jersey side of Philly. But the crew there is pretty special.






Merchantville NJ  the home of two all timers George Crump and Al Besselink

[Duncan Cheslett]

I would be happy to join a nine-holer if it was of good quality. I'd be even happier if it was a twelve-holer.

Twelve holes is the Goldilocks number IMO.

Followed by another twelve after lunch...

[Adrian_Stiff]

Almost always commercial disasters in the UK as a stand alone high quality course.


The buyer 'thinks' it must be 18.

[Thomas Dai]

There are some cracking stand alone 9-hole Clubs and courses around but I would say success in selling it to members depends on a few factors that are not really strictly golf related. Member/player expectations being one of them.

In the right location where playability in decent ground conditions is available close to 52 weeks p/a and with overall low level staffing, sensible course maintenance practices relative to the terrain and a small pavilion Clubhouse with limited food/beverage then I could see a stand alone 9-hole Club/course being a success. Success here not defined as a pure money-making venture but rather as more of a break-even style of long-term existence operation. What the nearby competition is like would also be a key factor.

I'd be happy to be a member at such a Club/course, especially if there were decent practice facilities as well. Wouldn't have to be 9-holes either. It could be 10 or 12 holes. Even more so if the course was reversible.

And with population levels rising and demand for land for housing etc increasing all the time how much space can golf expect to utilise, especially given how far the ball is being hit these days and how long it's taking to play 18-holes nowadays!

atb

[SB]

I think you could do successfully it if the course provided enough interest.  I have an 18 hole executive course and I sometimes think about turning it into 9 regulation holes.  I have two places where a par 3 follows a par 4 nearly perfectly, and some people play it as a par 5.  You could also significantly change the angle of the par 3's on some holes.  Sweetins Cove has extremely large interesting greens with two pins, combine that with the other changes, and you nearly have a brand new course on the second 9.  If you're talking about just a regular old 9 hole course, I think it's pretty tough sledding. 

[Blake Conant]

Could you convince an existing country club with 18 holes to reduce to 9?  How much attrition would there be?


For example, an old venerable club in the midwest currently has a sub-6000 yard 18 hole course crammed onto 75 acres of land.  Tiny driving range, nice clubhouse and bar, big pool, in an established neighborhood with a core routing, but a road bissects the land in half (and golf holes play over that road 4 times).


What if you proposed they keep or renovate 9-holes of golf on one side of the road, even having 1-3 "practice" or "rotational" roles on the other side.  The 9 would have room to breath, no more crossovers, and would make better use of the land. Then add a big driving range and practice facility (which their members crave), a par 3 course and/or pitch and putt?  Would membership go for that?


I've come across some clubs that would benefit greatly from something like this, but don't think many are willing to pull the trigger on reducing their private 18 to 9. 

[Tim Martin]

The closest private nine holer to me is Merchantville on the Jersey side of Philly. But the crew there is pretty special.






Merchantville NJ  the home of two all timers George Crump and Al Besselink

Archie-Merchantville is a lot of fun to play with what appears to be a great membership. I can’t recall the hole but there is a green side bunker that is round and not much bigger than a man hole cover and struck me as the smallest I could ever remember seeing on any golf course.

[Tommy Williamsen]

No way would I join a nine-holer. Spreading the membership on 18 holes is one thing: nine holes would end up too crowded unless they restricted the membership to 150 folks. Not sure how many belong to the Dunes, but I think nor many.

[jeffwarne]

I've joined two of them.
The course I play most frequently is 9.
Can't wait to get a second crack at a hole.
The only question is it's not exactly half
can't get 1/2 a Superintendant, 1/2 a pro etc.
Might work nicely for Archie who might be able to share labor from other enterprises.
12 seems a very nice number-especially if there were multiple whiskey routing options...

[David Harshbarger]

These guys are doing fine at Saratoga Golf and Polo, from what I understand:


https://www.saratogagolfpoloclub.org


They have the full club amenities: golf, tennis, swimming.  Golf is 9 holes.  Course dates to 1890's I am told.  They recently did restoration work on the course I am also told.

There are some cracking stand alone 9-hole Clubs and courses around but I would say success in selling it to members depends on a few factors that are not really strictly golf related. Member/player expectations being one of them.

In the right location where playability in decent ground conditions is available close to 52 weeks p/a and with overall low level staffing, sensible course maintenance practices relative to the terrain and a small pavilion Clubhouse with limited food/beverage then I could see a stand alone 9-hole Club/course being a success. Success here not defined as a pure money-making venture but rather as more of a break-even style of long-term existence operation. What the nearby competition is like would also be a key factor.

Our modest 9-hole club fits this description other than it's only open about 30 weeks a year.  Staffing is generally 1 in the house rotating among half a dozen part timers, 1 greenskeeper full-time and a 2 or 3 part timers there, and a pro/house manager (often the 1 in the house).


Members volunteer for larger projects: new roof on clubhouse, new paint, tree removal, new signage, excavating, grading, etc. 


Menu is limited (burgers, wings, sandwiches) and small buffets.  5 beers on tap.  All the liquors: vodka, gin, bourbon, rye, rum and ancient bottle of Galliano. 

Few people set out to join a 9-hole club.  But, a good club atmosphere and a fun course, regular competition, and a spirit of camaraderie make any course a good place to spend one's recreation dollars and hours.  It's not always easy to see that from the outside, though.

[Tom_Doak]

Archie:


A couple of club pros have told me that their most popular member events now are nine holes plus a meal or drinks afterward, due to time demands in their lives.


There are thousands of nine hole golf courses in the world.  Most are in rural areas where residents don't want to drive twenty miles to combine forces with the next town to reach the critical mass to support a full 18.  They are happy to trade better conditioning for convenience.


Nine holes have less financial upside than 18 holes because they still need a full-time greenkeeper, one mechanic, etc.  The same goes for maintenance equipment.  On the other hand, many 18 hole courses lose big money; 9 holes lose less. 😉 Many do without a golf pro to keep the operation lean - in Scotland they work out of a honesty box in the locker room!


So the answer to your question depends on your point of view.  If you're trying to make a profit, nine holes are a tough business.  If you're happy providing a little gem to golfers who will appreciate it, it could be just what the doctor ordered.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I'd join a nine-hole course particularly if they had a good practice facility.

I'm looking to take over and operate/run a six-hole golf course (tops out at about 1900 yards, par 23) this summer and ideally for the foreseeable future, and my hope is that juniors and seniors will find it an easy hour-long walk, people with busy lives will see it as a great place to get in just enough golf to scratch the itch before getting home to their families, etc.

When your whole course is only six holes, it IS the practice facility (but we'd also have a range and a putting green).

[Sean_A]

Well we know 9 holers work in limited numbers and situations. I tend to think they may work best a second club with limited membership. Of course, if a 9 holer had a rule about 2 ball only until after lunch it makes everything much easier in terms of numbers.

Think about a place like the Sacred 9. If there are twelve 2balls on the course it would feel crowded, but somehow it works.

Of course if the course is in a lovely spot with walkers about it could pay to open the house up to non golf use. It's a way to pay the bills and keep the house open longer hours for members.

Ciao

[Dan_Callahan]

Over the years, I've been a member of two different 9-hole courses.


In my (limited) experience, the biggest downside to 9-hole courses is the lack of practice facilities. Nine-hole courses are typically only 9 holes because there isn't enough land for 18. If there isn't an abundance of land, a driving range seems to be the first thing to go.


For many people, a lack of a range isn't a big deal. I happen to like hitting balls at the range almost as much as playing, so it ends up being a dealbreaker for me.


But only having 9 holes rather than 18 has never bothered me at all. If they are 9 really good holes, I won't get bored. 

[archie_struthers]

 


Great replies to my query! Thanks all and keep them coming.


I'm trying to help a friend who has a small 18 hole course that can best be described as an executive layout. They do have a really good  F & B attachment that drives most of the revenue. Thinking that if we improve the golf experience it might just spill over into the profit making side.


Of course this is the reverse of what I'm usually thinking where unless you have a great wedding venue F&B tends to be an amenity to sell golf. But its a critical component of the club. Can't begin to tell you how many of our older members that can't play much anymore love the camaraderie of the 19th hole and add greatly to a club. Some drive a ancillary business to the club just by their being members. One thing about golf you can play for a long time if you are blessed with health. Never forget a 87 year old yelling to me to come watch him hit some balls because he had found it! Loved that guy!

I'm feeling the ten or twelve hole concept with a neat practice area more and more. Perhaps a blended membership which allows plenty of time for the children of golfers to hang out in a safe environment and enjoy some outside activities. We once owned a nice nine hole golf course called Hamilton Trails and it always turned a small profit. It was definitely "no frills" but was fun and we had some really great employees that had a following which helped business.

Just shows the need to look at all the variables and plug in the right plan for your club, whether it be private or public. What we often forget is just how valuable the employees are to success. In that you can't always greet and help the members, they have to know your philosophy and enjoy their job also. It's not easy to find good people to do this and harder still to hold onto them given your ability to pay. At the very least they need to know you appreciate them and if they outgrow you help them in any way and invite them back to be members some day!

[Bernie Bell]

Moorestown Field Club is also 9 holes.  I've never played there, but it's been around for a long time. 

[Sean_A]

Archie

12 holes would hit a sweet spot especially if you can create two loops from the house. That's a tough ask, but possible sometimes.

Although, truth be told, my sweetest spot is 14 holes!  9 and 5 hole loops from the house would awesome.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

Are there any non 9 or 18 hole courses that carry official slope and rating designations?  If not, that might be a tough sell to the competitive HDCP carrying perspectives...

[David_Tepper]

Benjamin Litman did a very nice tour of the 9-hole Quogue Field Club on Long Island a while back:

https://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/litman-benjamin-s-timeless-golf-at-quogue-field-club/

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Are there any non 9 or 18 hole courses that carry official slope and rating designations?  If not, that might be a tough sell to the competitive HDCP carrying perspectives...

Pretty sure that's not possible. Must have 9 or 18. Not 100% certain, but high 90s.

[Bob Harris]

Are there any non 9 or 18 hole courses that carry official slope and rating designations?  If not, that might be a tough sell to the competitive HDCP carrying perspectives...

Pretty sure that's not possible. Must have 9 or 18. Not 100% certain, but high 90s.

It's complicated, but a 12 hole course can have a Course Rating/Slope.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

It's complicated, but a 12 hole course can have a Course Rating/Slope.

Thank you. I asked for clarification and was told, basically, we can rate courses with < 18 holes, but we do so by setting an 18-hole course and rating that.

Also, I was told it's quite likely this will be allowed without the complications in the (near?) future.

[Jim_Kennedy]

We have 12 of them in Litchfield County Ct, which is roughly 40 miles from N to S and 25 miles from E to W w/a population of around 182,000 people. Half are private, half aren't. There are six 18 hole courses, 3 private & 3 public. 


The private courses sustain themselves well, as do most of the public courses, even though the season is a maximum of 7 1/2 months, with roughly four of them being 'prime'.