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mark chalfant

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Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« on: January 06, 2020, 10:25:45 PM »

I would love to learn more about Peachtree. I have heard that the 12th is very strong, please fill me in about the other seventeen holes there in hilly northeast Atlanta.  Robert Trent Jones Sr. working with Bobby Jones is a stellar design team. Please describe the nature of the fairway contours, most interesting approach shots and the most interesting greens to putt on.

Also do you favor playing the front nine, or the back nine?
Thank you!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2022, 12:59:28 PM by mark chalfant »

Derek_Duncan

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2020, 08:54:26 AM »

I would love to hear more about Peachtree. I have heard the 12th is a strong hole, please fill me in about the other 17 holes there in Northeast Atlanta.  Robert Trent Jones Sr. with native son Bobby Jones is a stellar design team.


Please describe : the nature of the fairway contours, most interesting approach shots and the most interesting greens to putt on.


Also do you most favor playing the front nine or back nine?


Thank you!


Hello Mark,


Most people I know think the 12th is one of the weaker holes. There is a ditch that crosses the fairway in a location and at an angle that forces pretty much everyone to lay up, and the drive is semi-blind as well. It's a good green site, benched into a lateral slope and falling away on the right, but the hole mandates a tough approach shot for the handicap player hitting 190 slightly uphill to a bunkered green.


The site is lovely and moves over some pretty large hills -- there's significant up-and-down on nearly every hole, un-level lies everywhere (mostly on sideslopes like the par-4 3rd and par-4 15th), and 10 or 11 greens that sit higher than the fairway approach. In this way it's a very muscular course structurally. An ongoing tree-control program has opened up views across the course and restored the original space to the fairways -- they're quite wide.


The greens are pieces of art, with rolls and bubbles and false edges. Terrifying back-to-front or side-to-side slope is the main feature at holes like the famous par-5 2nd and par-5 5th, the 3rd, and all the par-3's, while greens like the first, 10th and 16th have major internal contour. Numerous greens have pin placements that can't be used at certain times because of green speeds.


Peachtree is unique and lovely but can really wear you down with the uphill approach shots and the deft putting requirements that overwhelm some players. But it was created in the same strategic model as Augusta National, on a similar type property, that encourages bold players to edge drives into certain positions while giving average hitters plenty of room to just find the fairway, and ground slope is a major factor.


I've heard it suggested that Peachtree is the course that began the modern era, as it launched RTJ's prolific run after WWII. I believe it's actually the last Golden Age course. 
www.feedtheball.com -- a podcast about golf architecture and design
@feedtheball

A.G._Crockett

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2020, 01:06:05 PM »
Mark,
I have played Peachtree twice, so I won't be able to do what you ask in the second paragraph.  But I will say that I think it is perhaps the best golf course, from the first tee to the 18th green that I've ever played.  I just loved it, even more the second time than the first; whatever my expectations were, Peachtree far, far exceeded them.

It is a great piece of ground.  There are NO weak holes.  The conditioning is, of course, magnificent.  It is in every way a wonderful, wonderful golf course.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

David Harshbarger

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2020, 01:53:56 PM »
It is in every way a wonderful, wonderful golf course.


Given they have no website, I expect nothing else!


(If you need to ask them something, then *you* don't need to know)
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Scott Warren

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2022, 03:30:08 AM »
I was lucky enough to play Peachtree this week as the final stop of a two-week trip through NC, SC and GA that was built around going to The Masters for the first time.

A lot of what I had been able to find online about Peachtree promoted the "Augusta Junior" narrative and I was excited to follow up a visit to the tournament at ANGC with playing a course created in its image. I try not to read too much about a place before I play it, so I was unaware until the night before that it was exclusive even by US private club standards etc. I mention that to try to make the point that I wasn't all gooey about the club to the point that I would gush about the course regardless.

I actually think the "Augusta Junior" stuff does Peachtree a disservice. It is in its own right and on its own merits a tremendous course on a top-notch site with a routing that brings to the fore those natural qualities and its architectural DNA was, I thought, actually quite different to ANGC.

The land undulates in all directions, and the course plays with those slopes such that I reckon the only level lies I had all day were on the tees. The par threes are exacting, the par fours mix up the yardage and shot types nicely while the par fives are more scoreable but use both sand and water to set up some strategic and heroic decisions into their bold greens.

Many of the greens are sited on landforms that promote dramatic shaping, with the surfaces a mix of knobs and ridges and also a lot of constant slopes that are subtle enough to make green-reading really challenging. The greenside bunkering uses some of those steep grades to create bunkers that despite having low lips, are "deep" in terms of their position relative to the green surface you're trying to escape to. While on the bunkering, while it is bright white in the style of ANGC, the shapes are far more sophisticated and artistic IMO.

Bunkers are used sparingly as drive hazards, with the land creating the strategy off the tee quite a bit in the way Abercrombie courses often do and in other cases the creek that winds through the property is well-used off the tee.

The club has been engaged in significant tree removal recently to make the pines and other quality trees thrive and star, and to improve the turf. This has also had the effect of opening up some wonderful long views across the course of the kind you see at ANGC from the field between 9 & 18 across 8, 2, and 3 towards 5 or from 17 down into Amen Corner. If you've seen the course profile in Planet Golf USA or the Planet Golf website, it no longer has that aesthetic.

On the same trip I played Old Town, Yeamans Hall and Palmetto -- which based on the latest Golf Mag World 100 would all be considered broadly comparable quality-wise -- and of that group only Old Town would get more rounds than Peachtree in a 10-round split.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2022, 05:17:07 PM by Scott Warren »

Niall C

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2022, 06:17:51 AM »
Scott


That's a fantastic write-up. I think friends of mine played there on a similar Masters trip a few years ago and I'll need to quiz them on their thoughts.


From your final para are you suggesting that Old Town is better ?


Niall

cary lichtenstein

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2022, 11:14:57 AM »
I was fortunate to play it once and thought it was fantastic!!!!!
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Scott Warren

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2022, 12:59:56 PM »
Scott


That's a fantastic write-up. I think friends of mine played there on a similar Masters trip a few years ago and I'll need to quiz them on their thoughts.


From your final para are you suggesting that Old Town is better ?


Niall


Thanks Niall. When you can’t post pics, the words have to do all the heavy lifting!


Yes, I was knocked out by Old Town. I’ve got a massive batch of pics that I’ll post. It’s really special.

Andrew Harvie

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2022, 03:50:53 PM »
Scott


That's a fantastic write-up. I think friends of mine played there on a similar Masters trip a few years ago and I'll need to quiz them on their thoughts.


From your final para are you suggesting that Old Town is better ?


Niall


Thanks Niall. When you can’t post pics, the words have to do all the heavy lifting!


Yes, I was knocked out by Old Town. I’ve got a massive batch of pics that I’ll post. It’s really special.


Old Town is superb. I have not played Peachtree, but I would be surprised if there was 25 better golf courses in the US than Old Town (some of the top 25 I've played are not nearly as good as Old Town!).

Lou_Duran

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2022, 06:39:02 PM »
I played Peachtree some eight years ago, going in with very high expectations and coming away astonished that such a gem stays under the radar.  Led around by an experienced caddie, the large changes in elevation creating uneven lies and stances, water and bunkers in all the "wrong" places, and the difficulty of walking the hilly site made for some very hard scoring conditions.  Also, the soft fairways made for a very long course.  I can't wait to play it again!


Relative to ANGC which I've only walked (backwards and forwards) a couple of times and conversations with some very good golfers about how it plays, I get the impression that PGC is the more difficult course tee to green, but the green complexes are not on the same level.  A guy I knew well who played a few times on the Senior Tour and ANGC maybe 10 times told me that he didn't have trouble getting the ball on the greens in regulation there, but even with a good caddie and several plays, the greens were out of this world.  And they were probably 2-3 feet slower than during tournament time.


I also had this discussion (which is the better course) years ago with a golf architect who has played both several times and he prefers PGC.  I think he said it is the more complete of the two (I took it to mean that it balances long and short game requirements better).  My hope is that some day I will be able to speak on this matter from personal experience.


 

Jim O’Kane

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2022, 08:04:33 PM »
I used to cut through that neighborhood on my drive home from work to beat Atlanta traffic every day for 5 years and always marveled and strained my neck looking through the fence at PGC. It's really nice to hear thoughts and assessments of the land inside that, and the confirmation of the suspicions I've had about the excellent land that must lie just on the other side of that fence.


I've seen some pictures of Old Town on Golf Digest and other sites and always thought that looked like quite the magnificent collection of holes (or at least pictures).


Thank you all for sharing your above thoughts. Great reads.

Mike_Young

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2022, 12:29:26 PM »
IMHO it is the best golf course in Georgia...and does not rely on green speed for it's difficulty as much as the other place...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Tim Martin

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2022, 02:27:53 PM »
IMHO it is the best golf course in Georgia...and does not rely on green speed for it's difficulty as much as the other place...


Not to thread jack but that would be a fun topic with ANGC going head to head against Peachtree GC in a hole by hole matchup. I haven’t played either but would be interested in the opinions of those that have.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2022, 03:49:52 PM by Tim Martin »

A.G._Crockett

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2022, 04:35:45 PM »
IMHO it is the best golf course in Georgia...and does not rely on green speed for it's difficulty as much as the other place...


Agreed, 100%.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Mike Hendren

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2022, 06:56:43 PM »
I could be wrong given my respect for those posters lauding Peachtree. I’ve played it twice and have only been onsite a dozen days at Augusta as a patron.


In my opinion Peachtree is a rock solid, disco-free test on a very good site. However I find it devoid of great holes such as numbers 5, 8, 10, 11, 12 and 13 at Augusta (not to mention 3 and 14).  I did not experience the thrill and excitement that I associate with those courses I rate 8 or better. According I have as a 7 in my ledger.  Using the old 10 rounds test, I go 9-1 in favor of Augusta.


Respectfully, Mike
« Last Edit: April 16, 2022, 06:58:25 PM by Michael H »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2022, 08:12:54 PM »
I played it about fifteen years ago and was invited to play it a couple of years ago. I hadn't like the course much so was reluctant to say yes to the invite. Boy was I wrong. I did play and am very glad I did. The par threes were very good, the par fives were just excellent and fun, the par fours were varied in length, and direction. All of them had very interesting greens. The first time I did not like all the uphill shots. This last time I appreciated them more. It's just a great place to spend the day.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

A.G._Crockett

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2022, 08:20:29 PM »
I could be wrong given my respect for those posters lauding Peachtree. I’ve played it twice and have only been onsite a dozen days at Augusta as a patron.


In my opinion Peachtree is a rock solid, disco-free test on a very good site. However I find it devoid of great holes such as numbers 5, 8, 10, 11, 12 and 13 at Augusta (not to mention 3 and 14).  I did not experience the thrill and excitement that I associate with those courses I rate 8 or better. According I have as a 7 in my ledger.  Using the old 10 rounds test, I go 9-1 in favor of Augusta.


Respectfully, Mike
It's worth considering for all of us that watching The Masters every spring for decades has given us an appreciation for particular holes that no other course, Peachtree included, could ever possibly match.  Plus, the back nine is set up to provide the ultimate theater; there's just no way to match that for courses I've seen just a few times. 


I guess I'll sort of put ANGC in a separate, special category, title to be determined.  That done, I think Peachtree is far and away the best I've ever played in the state of GA, and I'd put it in the "pick and choose" category for the best I've ever played anywhere, anytime.  I think it's that good.


"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Mike_Young

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2022, 08:38:19 PM »
I could be wrong given my respect for those posters lauding Peachtree. I’ve played it twice and have only been onsite a dozen days at Augusta as a patron.


In my opinion Peachtree is a rock solid, disco-free test on a very good site. However I find it devoid of great holes such as numbers 5, 8, 10, 11, 12 and 13 at Augusta (not to mention 3 and 14).  I did not experience the thrill and excitement that I associate with those courses I rate 8 or better. According I have as a 7 in my ledger.  Using the old 10 rounds test, I go 9-1 in favor of Augusta.


Respectfully, Mike
I understand and sense I may be in the minority on this but having been fortunate enough to play ANGC a few times over the years, it is not the same course during the year that it is for the 4 days in April..IMHO..If Peachtree were to be set up in Masters' conditions I think the scores would be higher...
« Last Edit: April 16, 2022, 11:18:33 PM by Mike_Young »
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

MCirba

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2022, 10:36:46 AM »
Some great discussion on this thread. I hope to see it for myself someday but it sounds very unique and intriguing.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2022, 02:18:12 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Jim Sherma

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2022, 12:53:59 PM »
I agree that Peachtree is a place that I would love to have a chance of seeing. A good friend of mine who has played almost everywhere one would want to play places it at the top of the heap after a handful of plays. He's not over the top as far as architecture fetishists go but knows what he is seeing and talking about. Is there a photo tour of it available on GCA or elsewhere on the web? The pictures I've seen look very nice.

Paul Jones

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2022, 12:55:07 PM »
I am a big fan of Peachtree and get to play the course most years as my friend invites me to play in a charity event. 


A few thoughts...


I love the 12th hole (if you play the right tees), but probably is the most difficult hole.  The ditch is at an angle and able to carry easier from 1 side, but longer on the other side.  If you do carry it, it is much shorter club to hit into the green which falls off sharply to the right. Last year I hit it into the greenside bunkers on the left side and was happy to make par, as it is very penal if you miss the green. I usually do not like difficult holes, but this one I do like since the course does not have many difficult driving holes off the tee.  It might be a Par 5 from the red tees.


They have very few fairway bunkers off the tee (Hole 1 and 18) are the only ones that come to mind, but I think there is another.


The green complexes are amazing as the variety in short/long par 4s.  Everyone talks about 2nd hole, but the green complexes on the other Par 5s are pretty amazing also. 


The only hole I do not love is the 13th hole, it is not bad, I just like it the least.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Lou_Duran

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2022, 07:45:39 PM »

They have very few fairway bunkers off the tee (Hole 1 and 18) are the only ones that come to mind, but I think there is another.


The green complexes are amazing as the variety in short/long par 4s.  Everyone talks about 2nd hole, but the green complexes on the other Par 5s are pretty amazing also. 




Re: fairway bunkers, #9 is the other.


As I recall, the greens are large and undulating, but manageable.  I didn't get the sense that they matched ANGC's in difficulty and nuance, but have not experienced the latter.


Would you be comfortable in divulging which of the two courses you consider best?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2022, 07:47:52 PM by Lou_Duran »

Jim O’Kane

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Re: Peachtree ( Robert Trent Jones Sr. )
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2022, 10:02:20 PM »
I could be wrong given my respect for those posters lauding Peachtree. I’ve played it twice and have only been onsite a dozen days at Augusta as a patron.


In my opinion Peachtree is a rock solid, disco-free test on a very good site. However I find it devoid of great holes such as numbers 5, 8, 10, 11, 12 and 13 at Augusta (not to mention 3 and 14).  I did not experience the thrill and excitement that I associate with those courses I rate 8 or better. According I have as a 7 in my ledger.  Using the old 10 rounds test, I go 9-1 in favor of Augusta.


Respectfully, Mike
I understand and sense I may be in the minority on this but having been fortunate enough to play ANGC a few times over the years, it is not the same course during the year that it is for the 4 days in April..IMHO..If Peachtree were to be set up in Masters' conditions I think the scores would be higher...


I would love to see a tournament there, set up like that.


Btw, I'm a big fan of your courses. I live in Atlanta.