[David Harshbarger]

When I was in NZ a couple of years ago part  of checking in was entering your NZGA(?) number into the handicap computer and it would print out your card for the round.

At customs?  Now that's a golf culture!   

[Pete_Pittock]

What is the primary function of equalizing hole stroke indexing (odd SIs on front, even SIs on back) between nines?


Is it to facilitate Nassau betting? 


If you have a nine hole match the stroke holes given would still fall in the same ascending order regardless of the numbers.

[David_Elvins]

I could see a use for custom cards printed with Resort player's name and the max score (NDB) grayed in for each hole as an interesting little amenity.

When I was in NZ a couple of years ago part  of checking in  at the club was entering your NZGA(?) number into the handicap computer and it would print out your card for the round. I assume you were required to hand in the card at completion. Adding shading for NBD shouldn't be an issue.

At the completion of the round you feed your card back into the computer and it does all the calculations based on your hole by hole scores.  You never have to know anything about how the handicap system works.

[Jerry Kluger]

This is another reason a valid argument can be made that all matches should be played off the card rather than off the lowest player.  If a 4 handicap is playing against a 14 handicap, in theory, they should both make bogey on the 4 most difficult holes because they are rated based upon play by a scratch player.  The real differential between the two players is at the holes rated 5 through 14 but that is not where the strokes fall.  This is especially true if the group is now a threesome where the handicaps are 2, 10 and 18.  Yes, the argument can be made that the 2 is giving strokes on the proper holes although not as noted previously, however, the 10 is not giving the 18 strokes on the correct holes.  It is not the 10 and 18 against the 2, it is all three against each other.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

1 isn’t usually “the most difficult hole.” It is/was the hole where the higher handicap player most needed a stroke.

Par five holes are often difficult for high handicap players and easy for low.

[Pete_Pittock]

Erik,
      I know that, have for at least 20 years. I am using difficulty because my state association issued a letter with a column titled "difficulty value", then explains it in these words  "Calculated value based on the recommended formula within Appendix E of the Rules of Handicapping. This value represents the combined strokes over par for Scratch and Bogey Players  (I am faithfully Capitalizing ).
       As I said earlier, there are/were two formulae in play [(A+B)/2 and A-B] when the committee decides where the holes fall in the handicap table  [(A= scratch players, B= bogey players].
       In the past A-B was followed. Now it appears they are using (A+B)/2, and am wondering why that changed. Is it because we have gone from ESC to net double bogey.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Erik,

I was replying to Jerry and why the low handicap player doesn’t get strokes. Why handicaps are played off the low guy.

Golf courses are still free to do whatever they want. The state association can recommend a path, or another path, etc. They don’t have to do (A+B)/2 or anything close to it. They could randomize it and matches would work out the same most of the time. People put too much time into worrying about stroke index. Unless you number the holes 1-18 or 18-1 (or something nearly that bad) matches work out the same the vast majority of the time.

[A.G._Crockett]

This is another reason a valid argument can be made that all matches should be played off the card rather than off the lowest player.  If a 4 handicap is playing against a 14 handicap, in theory, they should both make bogey on the 4 most difficult holes because they are rated based upon play by a scratch player.  The real differential between the two players is at the holes rated 5 through 14 but that is not where the strokes fall.  This is especially true if the group is now a threesome where the handicaps are 2, 10 and 18.  Yes, the argument can be made that the 2 is giving strokes on the proper holes although not as noted previously, however, the 10 is not giving the 18 strokes on the correct holes.  It is not the 10 and 18 against the 2, it is all three against each other.

As Erik said, the misunderstanding in this is that the hole that carries the #1 handicap is the most difficult hole.  While that MAY be true, IF the club did it's due diligence in the hole handicapping process, it's actually the hole where the bogey golfer most needs a stroke to equalize with the scratch golfer.  It does NOT mean that the 4 index is expected to bogey the hole; that is a different question entirely.


 Though the match between the 4 index and the 14 index isn't a perfect correlation to the scratch vs. bogey model, it still doesn't mean that the #1 hole is where the 4 index could be expected to make bogey; rather, it means that it's the hole where he is most likely to need a stroke from the scratch golfer.  Using a par 5 as an example, it might be a relatively easy par hole for the 4 handicap, but the scratch golfer might birdie the hole a majority of the time, so the 4 still needs a stroke.  Not difficulty; equalization.

All of that said, the match play handicapping of holes is just something that most golfers refuse to wrap their heads around.  You won't play many rounds without hearing somebody say in reference to a the handicap of a particular hole that it is or isn't as hard as some other hole with a different ranking.  If you try to explain, their eyes quickly glaze over and they'll likely make the same comment the next time they play the hole.

[MClutterbuck]

What is the primary function of equalizing hole stroke indexing (odd SIs on front, even SIs on back) between nines?


Is it to facilitate Nassau betting? 


If you have a nine hole match the stroke holes given would still fall in the same ascending order regardless of the numbers.

This is not a requirement, plenty of famous courses have odd and even numbers across both nines.

[A.G._Crockett]

What is the primary function of equalizing hole stroke indexing (odd SIs on front, even SIs on back) between nines?


Is it to facilitate Nassau betting? 


If you have a nine hole match the stroke holes given would still fall in the same ascending order regardless of the numbers.

This is not a requirement, plenty of famous courses have odd and even numbers across both nines.

I'd be interested to see this; I can't recall ever having seen anything but the odd-even split at any course I've ever played.


The reasoning behind odd-even is simple of course; it's so that all the strokes given won't happen in a cluster at the very beginning or end of a match.  And generally, I think, it's a very good procedure.

[MClutterbuck]

What is the primary function of equalizing hole stroke indexing (odd SIs on front, even SIs on back) between nines?


Is it to facilitate Nassau betting? 


If you have a nine hole match the stroke holes given would still fall in the same ascending order regardless of the numbers.

This is not a requirement, plenty of famous courses have odd and even numbers across both nines.

I'd be interested to see this; I can't recall ever having seen anything but the odd-even split at any course I've ever played.


The reasoning behind odd-even is simple of course; it's so that all the strokes given won't happen in a cluster at the very beginning or end of a match.  And generally, I think, it's a very good procedure.

Well, I have seen courses with index 1 and 3 in holes 18 and 17, So there is no guarantee that even odd configuration helps you on that...

Royal Troon comes to mind as a course that has even and odd holes on each nine. First hole is/was SI 16 and the second hole was SI 7.               

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Well, I have seen courses with index 1 and 3 in holes 18 and 17, So there is no guarantee that even odd configuration helps you on that...

Royal Troon comes to mind as a course that has even and odd holes on each nice. First hole is/was SI 16 and the second hole was SI 7.             

I'll re-iterate that it takes a pretty goofy system (almost to the extreme of assigning stroke indexes 1-18 or 18-1 in order) to really affect a significant number of match outcomes.

IMO people obsess over this needlessly. Sometimes it's based on a misunderstanding of the "hole difficulty" thing, sometimes it's based on their own games and where they typically lose holes (while ignoring that they often win some other holes), etc.

I used a random number generator to put the numbers 1-18 in random order:

Code: [Select]

1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18
13   15   1    12   8    4    11   18   9    16   3    5    14   6    7    2    17   10

You could take that sequence to almost any course and the majority of matches would end with the same winner.


The USGA and member associations are, from what I know, going to make recommendations to clubs, or in some cases only even do this when directly asked what they should do, and are generally going to let clubs do whatever they wish with the allocation of stroke indexes. They're there to help, not to enforce, as all of their data again shows that it's not really going to change outcomes unless something truly bizarre is done.


So, perhaps for simplicity's sake, they're doing the (A+B)/2 method, and recommending for example that SI 1 and 2 come in the middle three holes of the front and back nines, and that consecutive stroke holes are not side by side, and some other little guidelines.

[Pete_Pittock]

     Think numbering handicap holes with odd numbers on front is the result trying to put order and fairness into the system, and I've thought this from early childhood. Received the severity index for both our courses as well as actual scores.  Will look at (A+B)/2 and A-B to see if I can find clusters which allow wiggle-room in assigning SIs. Learned enough to stay out of the fray for their handicap holes.


Conflicted between Go Clemson and Geaux Tigers.

[MClutterbuck]

I believe also that until recently, this years The Open course Royal St. George´s had even and off hole ratings on each nine.

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