Nearest Accessible Course You've Dissed, Why, and What are Doing About it?

[David Harshbarger]

What's the nearest accessible course to your home that you have dissed?  You know the one you've driven by, or heard of, but can't be bothered to stop in to try, because, you know...reasons.  What are going to do about it, anything?



Course: Dutchaven Golf Course
Distance: 23.6 miles
Reason: It's a patch of holes on the side of the road that looks uninspiring when I've driven by. 
Why this a bad reason: Mostly because my home course that I love and played far north of 50 times in 2019 is otherwise an uninspiring patch of flat holes.
Action: I'm going with that I will actually go give it a try come spring, with the most likely time being some Saturday afternoon when my course has one of the few outside events that I prefer not to play.

Anyone else?

[Ronald Montesano]

I used to disparage courses in my younger days, for not-well-thought-out reasons. Attendance to this forum has given me the perspective to find something redeeming in every course I play. It doesn't mean I'll return or recommend it, but I will extract some sequence of shots, or views, or rolls, or what-have-you.


The nature of my involvement in golf, means I don't often get the opportunity to play a course twice. I don't belong to a local club, and I tend to binge my golf during trips. I'm hoping, as I approach 55 in October, to get my game in shape to tackle some senior events. I know that I could have played others since the age of 50, but life precluded that.


There is a course that I have played twice, but it is not near me. I first played it in 2007, then returned to play it in 2019. I disliked it the first time I saw it, in overcast, gloomy weather, and I maintained that dislike this past year, in glorious, sunny climate. It was designed by a well-known architect, but little thrilled me.


Actually, I retract that. On the second play, I really enjoyed the first two holes. Gentle doglegs, that gave options from either side and center of fairway. Unfortunately, as the round wore on, the doglegs became more severe, and many times the trees blocked you from a look at the green, even though you were 225 or more off the tee, fairway center.


I don't wish to give away much more than this. I will say that, if someone asked me about the course, I would be honest with my opinion. I would not play the course a third time, regardless of circumstances. Better to sleep in or take a nice walk.

[Sean_A]

The nearest course to me is one I avoid. It has to be a candidate for one of the worst courses I have played. Even though it is cheap as chips to play, I won't go because there is very little in the way of quality or interest to entice me. Simply being cheap does not equate to good value.

Ciao

[David Harshbarger]

Ron, that's pretty brutal.


Thinking about the Dollar course that closed, are there courses of that ilk that you haven't bothered to try nearby?  Or are you curious enough that you've played everywhere that's close enough to get to in a reasonable  or even slightly unreasonable drive?

[MCirba]

What's the nearest accessible course to your home that you have dissed?  You know the one you've driven by, or heard of, but can't be bothered to stop in to try, because, you know...reasons.  What are going to do about it, anything?



Course: Dutchaven Golf Course
Distance: 23.6 miles
Reason: It's a patch of holes on the side of the road that looks uninspiring when I've driven by. 
Why this a bad reason: Mostly because my home course that I love and played far north of 50 times in 2019 is otherwise an uninspiring patch of flat holes.
Action: I'm going with that I will actually go give it a try come spring, with the most likely time being some Saturday afternoon when my course has one of the few outside events that I prefer not to play.

Anyone else?

David,
You may be interested to know that Dutchaven was originally a par three golf course (some accounts say par 29) designed and operated by one Nick Schnurr in 1961.   Mr. Schnurr seemed to be a quite the bowler and fair golfer, and was head of the Rensallear (sp?) County "Conservative Party", who also owned the nearby "Porterhouse Restaurant".   In 1988, Schnurr sold the course to the Jim Carey family.   Sometime between 1994 and 2004 the course was expanded to just over 2,500 yards with what looks to be additional land east of the original holes.   I assume it was done by the Carey family but don't know for certain.

[Greg Hohman]

Timely question. Recently I emailed the superintendent of my local muni, a boring track. Receiving no response, I resent it, twice, in vain. Now I will print and mail it the old-fashioned way. I am seeking a professional's opinion of the place and his wish list of improvements. I asked if there is a Friends of ____. If not, starting one would be on my wish list.

[David Harshbarger]

What's the nearest accessible course to your home that you have dissed?  You know the one you've driven by, or heard of, but can't be bothered to stop in to try, because, you know...reasons.  What are going to do about it, anything?



Course: Dutchaven Golf Course
Distance: 23.6 miles
Reason: It's a patch of holes on the side of the road that looks uninspiring when I've driven by. 
Why this a bad reason: Mostly because my home course that I love and played far north of 50 times in 2019 is otherwise an uninspiring patch of flat holes.
Action: I'm going with that I will actually go give it a try come spring, with the most likely time being some Saturday afternoon when my course has one of the few outside events that I prefer not to play.

Anyone else?

David,
You may be interested to know that Dutchaven was originally a par three golf course (some accounts say par 29) designed and operated by one Nick Schnurr in 1961.   Mr. Schnurr seemed to be a quite the bowler and fair golfer, and was head of the Rensallear (sp?) County "Conservative Party", who also owned the nearby "Porterhouse Restaurant".   In 1988, Schnurr sold the course to the Jim Carey family.   Sometime between 1994 and 2004 the course was expanded to just over 2,500 yards with what looks to be additional land east of the original holes.   I assume it was done by the Carey family but don't know for certain.

I love this site..... :-)


The restaurant is still well regarded. 

[Kyle Harris]

Timely question. Recently I emailed the superintendent of my local muni, a boring track. Receiving no response, I resent it, twice, in vain. Now I will print and mail it the old-fashioned way. I am seeking a professional's opinion of the place and his wish list of improvements. I asked if there is a Friends of ____. If not, starting one would be on my wish list.

Speaking from the other side of the desk:


This is all-too-often a trap and unsolicited free advice rarely comes cheap.

You may have more success by investing yourself in the property (you know, paying to play there) and developing a relationship where you have some skin the game and are known outside of from "behind the keyboard."

[jeffwarne]

Timely question. Recently I emailed the superintendent of my local muni, a boring track. Receiving no response, I resent it, twice, in vain. Now I will print and mail it the old-fashioned way. I am seeking a professional's opinion of the place and his wish list of improvements. I asked if there is a Friends of ____. If not, starting one would be on my wish list.

Speaking from the other side of the desk:


This is all-too-often a trap and unsolicited free advice rarely comes cheap.

You may have more success by investing yourself in the property (you know, paying to play there) and developing a relationship where you have some skin the game and are known outside of from "behind the keyboard."

I would be amazed if a high ranking employee(in any walk of life) would disclose any negatives about his place of employment-in print-to someone he doesnt know....

[Matthew Rose]

When I lived in north Denver, the closest courses to me were Legacy Ridge, Hyland Hills, and Thorncreek. None of these I would think would be particularly appealing to this community, for various reasons. I did find myself going there more often than not because my family / playing partners didn't seem to mind them, liked the proximity and also tended to get deals on lower green fees.

Thorncreek was redone 2-3 years ago and it did come out a better course for sure. I did make two suggestions on their Facebook page which ended up being carried out in the rebuild but I can't say with any certainty that those were necessarily my ideas.

The other two courses weren't terrible but they had one or two holes on each that really bugged me and that usually took away a little of my enjoyment. I'm not aware of any plans to fix them and it's a moot point now anyway. I suppose I only took the initiative in one case because I knew they were going to redo it and figured I had nothing to lose.

[David Harshbarger]

The other two courses weren't terrible but they had one or two holes on each that really bugged me and that usually took away a little of my enjoyment. I'm not aware of any plans to fix them and it's a moot point now anyway. I suppose I only took the initiative in one case because I knew they were going to redo it and figured I had nothing to lose.

It's interesting to me how one or two annoying holes can be the take-away from a course.  Beyond courses that have high water-in-play features, which I find tiresome, the annoying holes are often weird, blind dog-legs that don't play driver from the tee.


Do you find it only takes one or two holes on a course to form the narrative you leave with?

[Tim Martin]

Westwoods Golf Course-Farmington, CT
Par 61 4407 yards from longest tees
Built in 1964 by Geoffrey Cornish
9 miles from home-owned by municipality


After living in a neighboring town for nearly twenty five years I have never heard anyone say anything other than it’s good for kids. Our town offers a 9 hole and an 18 hole municipal option. I am going to check it out in the Spring.

[David Harshbarger]

Westwoods Golf Course-Farmington, CT
Par 61 4407 yards from longest tees
Built in 1964 by Geoffrey Cornish
9 miles from home-owned by municipality


After living in a neighboring town for nearly twenty five years I have never heard anyone say anything other than it’s good for kids. Our town offers a 9 hole and an 18 hole municipal option. I am going to check it out in the Spring.

There's a course that sounds similar that I used to play on lunch breaks: Clifton Knolls. It was built in the 60's as an amenity for a suburban development.  It's been open to the public at least since the late 90's.  Par 29, but all of the par-3's are different lengths, the greens are heavily canted, and it's a very pleasant walk with one's mates.  At $9-$15 I have nothing but excellent memories of playing there.  Went back with my kids and they enjoyed it. 


Who knows, maybe Westwoods will fit some niche for you, too!

[Kalen Braley]

Not sure if I understand this thread.  I'm guessing if we've driven by it several times we probably have our reasons.

But for me, based on what I've seen in multiple drive-bys:
1)  Course is a Doak 1-1.5 at best.
2)  Resides in the worst part of the city
3)  Flat and featureless

Only thing it has going for it, it was the course Tony Finau played growing up...but ask me if I care two shits about that. 

[MCirba]

Not sure if I understand this thread.  I'm guessing if we've driven by it several times we probably have our reasons.

But for me, based on what I've seen in multiple drive-bys:
1)  Course is a Doak 1-1.5 at best.
2)  Resides in the worst part of the city
3)  Flat and featureless

Only thing it has going for it, it was the course Tony Finau played growing up...but ask me if I care two shits about that. 

Rose Park?
I've played it.   

[Kalen Braley]

Not sure if I understand this thread.  I'm guessing if we've driven by it several times we probably have our reasons.

But for me, based on what I've seen in multiple drive-bys:
1)  Course is a Doak 1-1.5 at best.
2)  Resides in the worst part of the city
3)  Flat and featureless

Only thing it has going for it, it was the course Tony Finau played growing up...but ask me if I care two shits about that. 

Rose Park?
I've played it.   

Nice work Mike!  Its a pass from me! 

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I don't believe I've ever disparaged an "accessible" course if we're defining it the way I think we are.

I have of course had negative opinions about some courses. Dissing a course, though, feels different to me than talking about the architecture, or design, or maintenance, or whatever.

People are happy to play all kinds of courses. If they're happy, good for them.

[Bernie Bell]

I will interpret "dissed" to mean simply not played, since I shouldn't speak ill of a course I haven't played.


Course:  Needwood GC
Distance:  16 miles, and on the way to my home course
Reason:  There are other county courses that I've favored when not playing at home.
Why that's a bad reason:  1/  Course is cheap, it might be cheerful  2/ I don't have much experience with Lindsay Ervin, and I might like his work as much as Ed Ault's.
Action item:  Play Needwood!

[David Harshbarger]

I don't believe I've ever disparaged an "accessible" course if we're defining it the way I think we are.

I have of course had negative opinions about some courses. Dissing a course, though, feels different to me than talking about the architecture, or design, or maintenance, or whatever.

People are happy to play all kinds of courses. If they're happy, good for them.

Another way to look at this would be to ask what courses have you formed the opinion that you wouldn't want to play, even if, or particularly if you haven't played it before. 


The question came to mind following the discussion of the Dollar course's closing.  One poster noted that he lived within 25 miles and had never played it.  That poster, obviously, is not Mike Cirba.  ;-).  Now, that course is gone and that poster will not have a chance to experience it.


While I'm sure there are people (famous stars? name pros?) who can't, logistically, just go to any old course, for the rest of us there's no real reason not to play, at least once, the courses nearby.   But there are definitely reasons people don't play every course they know of, just like there are reasons people don't dine at every restaurant in their area. What are those reasons?  Are they good reasons?  If not, is taking time to see what the course actually offers worthwhile?


That's the intent.

[Adam Clayman]

I'll twist this one around.


I'm close to a course that was designed in the late 60's. My hope is to someday be seriously asked "Why don't you like this place"?. My response would be, "Funny you should ask, with all the changes you've made over 50 years, Why don't you like this place"?


A classic example of total disrespect for the original architect who built them a thoughtful and varied 9 hole design. Altered, over 50 years, by people whose only knowledge on golf courses comes from playing.


The Board's poor reputation, preceded my ever playing there, so approaching them was and is out of the question. However, I did approach two people. One was the newest member of the Board who I encouraged to research the subject. I might've started him out in the wrong place. I told him to read Behr. The other was a political go-around, speaking to the son-in-law of the course manager. His influence seemed inherent, since his company likely benefits from selling all the pavers to line their new ponds.

[David Harshbarger]

I'm close to a course that was designed in the late 60's. My hope is to someday be seriously asked "Why don't you like this place"?. My response would be, "Funny you should ask, with all the changes you've made over 50 years, Why don't you like this place"?

That's a great point.   Often "do nothing" is the most difficult option to execute.

[Bernie Bell]

I would imagine that often "do nothing" is not an option at all.  Fifty years on, they must be doing something right, or at least something that is acceptable to their members or customers.

[jeffwarne]

I can't think of a neaby course of anywhere I've ever lived that I didn't play...


But I'm fortunate to take multiple golf trips every year with friends, family, clients, colleagues and members.
I very often diss modern, big deal over the top, high amenity modern courses, as I nearly always find the whole over the top treatment just not what I enjoy in my off time from my job.
Examples would be last September I drove right past the next door Trump Scotland (which I've never played)course to play Newburgh on Ythan and played 11 courses between there and Covesea in a 90 mile coastal run and didn't play Castle Stuart (which I've yet to play)
When in New Zealand the only courses I played were Arrowtown, Oreti Sands. Waitangi and Waipu(plus I played in The Renaissance Cup at Tara Iti which was awesome as expected-as was the event)
On a return trip I would seek out more of the "country courses" Ash Towe has mentioned on this site.


So I'm not dissing them because I don't think they are good courses.I'm just not looking for someone to lead me around, carry my bag and shine my shoes when in exploring mode.....

[Joe_Tucholski]

This thread has been good timing.  In the last week I played the two nearest courses to where I live.  Both were under $30 to walk 18.


Lagoon Park is a Montgomery city owned course about 10 miles from my current home.  Driving by a couple times before, I had decent expectations going in.  Unfortunately they were not met.  It had rained a couple days before and the course was a bit of a Lagoon.  The greens were uninspiring and it took me nearly 5 hours to play.


Cypress Tree Golf Club is the course on Maxwell AFB and 2-3 miles away.  I had only heard bad things and the course exceeded those expectations.  The greens had some decent movement and a couple holes were quirky good.  I will say a couple holes have a federal prison within a couple yards of the fairway with a relatively low fence and a treeline as the only protection.  I was a bit worried for the guys out in the yard when I stood on the tee.  Luckily my balls stayed out of the prison and caused them no harm but I can't imagine how often golf balls go flying into the prison.  The prisoners also serve as grounds crew for the course.

[David Harshbarger]

Luckily my balls stayed out of the prison.

Maybe the only thing ever said on this site that we can all agree on.  :-). Even JaKa.