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Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lookout Mountain (Raynor/Banks)
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2020, 09:24:27 PM »
You have to walk it backward.
And have a few balls to toss around and roll on the greens. :)
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Joe Zucker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lookout Mountain (Raynor/Banks)
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2020, 09:32:17 PM »
One of my favorite courses is Canterbury in Cleveland because I find the greens to be subtle and a real challenge to read.  If I walked the course, I have no idea how I would appreciate this characteristic because I would assume what my eyes see is correct.  Similarly at Lookout Mountain, I'm guessing that I wouldn't think that I would de-green my ball 3 times in one round (which I did in my one play). 


It seems like the ideal solution is to play a round, then walk the course after.  Without playing, I can't imagine I would ever be able to fully appreciate greens and the surrounds because my mind would not see the unexpected features/results.  Similarly, while playing I'm sure I'd ignore all the places my ball didn't end up.  As with everything in life, there are trade offs to each.

Eric Strulowitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lookout Mountain (Raynor/Banks)
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2020, 04:22:48 PM »
One of my favorite courses is Canterbury in Cleveland because I find the greens to be subtle and a real challenge to read.  If I walked the course, I have no idea how I would appreciate this characteristic because I would assume what my eyes see is correct.  Similarly at Lookout Mountain, I'm guessing that I wouldn't think that I would de-green my ball 3 times in one round (which I did in my one play). 


It seems like the ideal solution is to play a round, then walk the course after.  Without playing, I can't imagine I would ever be able to fully appreciate greens and the surrounds because my mind would not see the unexpected features/results.  Similarly, while playing I'm sure I'd ignore all the places my ball didn't end up.  As with everything in life, there are trade offs to each.


Joe, I have to agree about those greens at Canterbury, they are indeed very subtle.  I can say without reservation, that Canterbury is my favorite course anywhere.  If I lived nearby, would join that place in a minute.  What they did on a relatively compact uninspiring plot of land is amazing.  Can't wait to get back there later this year again.


I am a member at Lookout, and I have studied those greens from every angle, and it never ceases to amaze how down is up, and up is down.  There are breaks you could never guess.   Every guest I have hosted there, has been amazed at  this phenomenon, some of the rolls on those greens defy reason.   I understand how Raynor did it, but am at a loss of words to describe it exactly.  The greens clearly steal the show there, the rest of the course is simply amazing, and on a clear day the views just blow you away.  Encourage anyone in the area to give it a try, I am certainly happy to host anytime I am free!

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lookout Mountain (Raynor/Banks)
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2020, 04:30:31 PM »
I understand how Raynor did it, but am at a loss of words to describe it exactly.

Eric and others:  Do you think Raynor and Banks set out to build confounding greens or did it just work out that way randomly based upon the topography and visuals? 

It is a real treat to play Lookout Mountain and what I call its Ouiji Board greens - the ball just seems to randomly migrate around and across  them!   The course jumps on you right out of the gate with the first four holes being quite challenging.  A no frills golfer's club with a great vibe. 

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Lookout Mountain (Raynor/Banks)
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2020, 05:00:46 PM »
Mike, I love that question. I've always thought that some sites are just naturally disorienting because of prevailing slopes and/or perspective-skewing visuals. That's my feeling about Lookout and a few other courses... Rustic Canyon is a notable example. So is Northland.


But that doesn't mean there's no architectural artistry at work taking advantage of the surrounding environment. At the very least, I give a lot of credit at a place like Lookout for building the right greens for the site, and I don't dismiss the idea that some of the deception out there is purposeful too. I just think the setting lends the bulk of it.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lookout Mountain (Raynor/Banks)
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2020, 07:39:54 AM »
I understand how Raynor did it, but am at a loss of words to describe it exactly.

Eric and others:  Do you think Raynor and Banks set out to build confounding greens or did it just work out that way randomly based upon the topography and visuals? 

It is a real treat to play Lookout Mountain and what I call its Ouiji Board greens - the ball just seems to randomly migrate around and across  them!   The course jumps on you right out of the gate with the first four holes being quite challenging.  A no frills golfer's club with a great vibe. 

Bogey


Mike-To answer your question I think they set out to build confounding greens. They always used the topography expertly as an assist in that effort.

Chad Anderson (Tennessee)

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lookout Mountain (Raynor/Banks)
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2020, 10:28:57 AM »
I'm excited to have Lookout Mountain host our Tennessee Match Play Championship this July!  Those boys better play a practice round.


Many players can't figure out the greens as "all putts break towards the college."  From what I have heard, the original clubhouse location was supposed to be overlooking the bluff after 2 green.  That would have been spectacular.
Chad Anderson
Executive Director
Tennessee Golf Association
@tngolf

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