[John Kirk]

Of course, a black swan event could cause a sharp contraction in business activity and a lower valuation of asset markets, rendering a significant percentage of golf facilities economically unfeasible.  In particular, any disruption to the world's oil supply will have a tangible effect on golf.

[Jeff Schley]

  In particular, any disruption to the world's oil supply will have a tangible effect on golf.

Let's hope not, as there are models for cause effect and IMO many fall short of the actual effects that would felt as so many things are linked in this world.

[John Kavanaugh]

It's the number of people who believe they have earned the right to be members that is increasing. There is nothing quite like calling up a club about the possibility of joining and coming away with the thought of WTF was I thinking. I must have still been in my 30's when I cold called St. Louis CC and asked what I needed to do to join. I had never played there but had heard good things. It took a full 45 minutes on the phone to finally get though to me that it wasn't going to happen. It's not so much that St. Louis CC didn't want me, they didn't need me.

John I'm not sure what to make of this post.  Are you lamenting that there are more people in their 30's now who are like you when you were in your 30's?

Yes, we don't need more me without the tools to say no. I can't imagine today a membership director of a great club spending 45 minutes with an outsider explaining why they don't measure up. Why belong where you don't is no longer a question that can be answered.

[Chris Hughes]

For those who have been to Palmetto Golf Club:


1.  How would you describe the "model"?


2.  Who/what is the target market?


3.  How's it working out?


4.  Is McMahon Group involved?

[Craig Sweet]

They've got too much going on in their lives.....Why join a club if you only play a handful of times a year?   

[Wayne_Kozun]

Of course, a black swan event could cause a sharp contraction in business activity and a lower valuation of asset markets, rendering a significant percentage of golf facilities economically unfeasible.  In particular, any disruption to the world's oil supply will have a tangible effect on golf.

Or a Black Swan effect could cause everyone to think that belonging to a private golf club is a great idea.  Which actually happened since the thread was started four years ago.  And Millenials joined clubs in droves, at least here in Toronto.

[Matt Schoolfield]

This article seems like it's being written about me personally.

I'm a first year millennial ('81). I know a few young folks who are club members in the bay area (Olympic & Merced), but the vast majority of millennials here are really are more interested in owning a (multi-million dollar) starter home before they even think about a luxury golf lifestyle.

Beyond that issue, for me personally, there are still some cultural issues. I went to the Fried Egg Golf event this weekend at the Meadow Club, and I'll fully admit that I blushed at the servers carrying around hors d'oeuvres... it's very much something I actively would not want if I were a member.

This is a huge thread, and I don't mean to rehash stuff that's already been discussed, but yes I absolutely respect the idea of being in a club of like-minded individuals, playing golf together on a course we built and maintain, so long as we aren't jerks about allowing guests/events. However, it seems that culture is often deeply entwined with conspicuous consumption, and that is a huge red flag for me. The cognitive dissonance from leaving a public comment period to advocate for more housing, density, and transit alternatives to help my friends get by, to then retire to a club where exclusive abundance is the vibe... it would just be too much for me.

And I shouldn't even have to say this, but the idea of joining a historically, overtly racist or sexist club is an absolute non-starter. If a club isn't willing to change their name, then I don't think they're willing to own their past. Not everyone will agree with me, obviously, but when Pine Valley somehow gets a pass when literally settling an illegal gender discrimination lawsuit this year, then yea, I think it's safe to say it's still a relevant issue.

[John Kavanaugh]

I agree with Matt.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I don't know where you live Matt, but my club in Toronto was struggling to attract members from about 2007-2020.  The club is 111 years old, and is a little old school, but not ridiculously so.  You can use your cell phone anywhere but you can't wear a hat in the clubhouse, or have ripped jeans, but you can have unripped jeans.  We have visible minorities as members, but they are a relatively small portion of the membership, despite the club being in an inner suburb of Toronto that is probably 70%+ visible minoritiies.

I joined in 1999, paid $36k and the price dropped to about $15.  The membership was not full until Covid.  We are now full, have 75+ people on the waiting list, and have raised the price back up to $40k.

A lot of those who have joined are millenials. 

[Nick Schreiber]

As alluded to above, I think COVID changed the math on this conversation considerably. Several GMs, pros, and long-time members at clubs in the Chicago area have offered us much appreciated advice and guidance at Old Barnwell in the last few years. Each tells the same tale of how they tried to attract younger members pre-COVID, offering huge discounts on initiation fees, spreading out payments, incentivizing members to put their equity towards a child's membership, etc. Not much worked until COVID hit, and even after prices went back to normal (and then higher than ever), the average age at these clubs went down by several years in just 18-24 months. Granted, several of these clubs have introduced or expanded their family-friendly events/offerings, but their cultures haven't changed drastically.



More than four years ago (!!) Andy Johnson at Fried Egg Golf wrote about the "craft culture" mentality from the world of beer infiltrating the golf world, which has led younger golfers to become much more interested in the craft of design and construction. I tend to agree with this comparison, and wonder if an increased focus on improving the golf "product" at many private clubs has accelerated the Millennial march into private membership.
 

[PCCraig]

COVID completely changed the way younger people think about & join private country clubs. The demand hasn't slowed down a bit, at least here in Minnesota.


Ironically, private city clubs are struggling to stay alive in many major US cities.

[Alex Miller]

Ironically, private city clubs are struggling to stay alive in many major US cities.

Is this true? I have not seen indications of this.

[Tim Martin]

COVID completely changed the way younger people think about & join private country clubs. The demand hasn't slowed down a bit, at least here in Minnesota.


Ironically, private city clubs are struggling to stay alive in many major US cities.

What major cities?

[Charlie Goerges]

What is a private city club?

[Tommy Williamsen]

What is a private city club?

He might be referring to this kind of club: a social club with fine dining.


https://www.metroclub.com/

[Charlie Goerges]

What is a private city club?

He might be referring to this kind of club: a social club with fine dining.


https://www.metroclub.com/

Thanks Tommy

[William_G]

our country club has had many millenials sign up as intermediate members which helps defer their full initiation down the road until they are older


it's been a great place to raise a family over my 30 years there

[Bernie Bell]

From WSJ today

Millennials Are Coming for Your Golf CommunitiesLiving on golf courses has surged in popularity since the pandemic. Many courses have upgraded facilities and broadened amenities. Now the 40-year-olds want in too.
"the NGF has seen a shift toward younger private golf club members on the heels of the pandemic. Since 2019, the number of golfers at private golf clubs has increased by approximately 25%, from just under 1.5 million to 1.9 million, according to the NGF. Adults under the age of 50 comprise 60% of those memberships, with young adults, ages 18 to 34, representing about 30%"
article behind paywall
https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/luxury-homes/millennials-are-coming-for-your-golf-communities-ca42f901?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1

[Jason Topp]

Playing in a member guest a couple of years ago I realized at the end of a 27 hole day that kid’s sports was the primary topic of conversation in every group. 


In my mid-50s I went from being the normal age at such events to being old, seemingly in one weekend.  My status has solidified since that time. 

[Simon Barrington]

A little Friday Humour for you:-

The subject reminded me of an incident (many years ago) at my Club here in the leafy Home Counties of the UK.

I had been playing with one of the sharpest wits in the Club, and we were walking into the Clubhouse.

A rarely seen member (who was also a Sunningdale Member and former Club Champion) was leaving as we entered.

My partner expressed shock and delight at seeing him:

   "Wow, how lovely to see you at the Club it has been a very long time, are you still a Member?"

The reply came in:

  "Yes, I am still a Country Member"

Quick as a flash responded my partner:

  "Yes, I remember!"


Will never forget it, the essence of comic timing
Play well this weekend.
Cheers!

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