Golf Autralia Rankings 2020

[Mark_F]

Out the last day or so.

Some interesting rankings, as well as the usual bum fluff from the judging panel, the ridiculous inclusion of Ellerston, although given how far it is slipping down the rankings it is only a matter of time before James pulls the plug on access, and the fact that the judges' conflicts of interest aren't mentioned.

• RM West
• Cape Wickham
• Barnbougle Dunes
• Lost Farm
• Peninsula North
• Kingston Heath
• RM East
• Victoria
• Royal Adelaide
• National Golf Club Doakean Course
• NSW -
• St Andrews Beach
• National Golf Club Moonah
• (Ellerston was ranked here, but shouldn't be)
• Ocean Dunes
• The Lakes
• Metropolitan
• Peninsula South
• Woodlands
• Barwon Heads
• Lake Karrinyup
• Kooyonga
• National Old Course
• Thirteenth Beach Beach Course
• Royal Canberra Westbourne
• Royal Queensland
• Newcastle
• Commonwealth - such a sad fall from grace
• The Dunes
• Bonnie Doon
• Port Fairy

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark,


Almost every course from 11-31 would have been a legitimate 10-12th in 1989.
Golf here has come a long way in the intervening years.


I've always thought it's hard to rate a course where there can never be a legitimate debate as to its merits because so few see it - and those who do are likely to be wowed by things other than the architecture.

[Mark_F]

Are you surprised by how high Pen North is, Mike?

[Jeff Schley]

.


I've always thought it's hard to rate a course where there can never be a legitimate debate as to its merits because so few see it - and those who do are likely to be wowed by things other than the architecture.

I think I know which course you are referencing Mike. It is hard to separate setting from gca as they are part of a package and as long as there are oceans and water views that real estate is at a premium for a reason.

[Greg Gilson]

Sorry....Kingston Heath at 6?


I have not seen/played the latest iteration of PKGC North but someone must have sprinkled fairy dust on it for it to jump into that league.

[Anthony Butler]

I haven't played Lost Farm or Cape Wickham as yet, but any ranking that has Kingston Heath outside the top 5 and NSW outside the Top 10 has zero credibility.

[Mike_Clayton]

Are you surprised by how high Pen North is, Mike?

Not really  I think it's either where it is or one place lower.

[Mike_Clayton]

I haven't played Lost Farm or Cape Wickham as yet, but any ranking that has Kingston Heath outside the top 5 and NSW outside the Top 10 has zero credibility.

Kingston Heath attained his rightful and lofty position before Barnbougle, Lost Farm,Wickham and Peninsula North were built - or rebuilt. You can moan about it's position - or celebrate the reality we now have much better golf than we did 30 years ago. 6 in Australia is awfully good now - miles better than it was.
NSW outside 10 is outrageous if you are rating the experience of playing there.
Not so much if you are rating more than that.


And for sake of argument - let's say the other 98 courses are roughly in the right place (and there aren't many glaring errors) and two courses marginally out from where you think they are then the list has zero credibility?

[Tim Rooney]

Agree,would bump Kingston Heath & Victoria closer to the top and also NSW within the top 10.

[Scott Warren]

I haven't played Lost Farm or Cape Wickham as yet, but any ranking that has Kingston Heath outside the top 5 and NSW outside the Top 10 has zero credibility.

I don’t think you’ve been in Australia since Peninsula North got a total rebuild, so it’s actually three of the top five you’ve not seen.


I think if you look in the mirror you’ll see something with zero credibility!


As far as NSW, it’s the reality of where our golf course is at. With everything that was built or renovated over the 15 years that Norman was making our course less good, the slide is really no surprise. Not when Golf Australia Mag is a ranking of the architecture alone. There’s still not a better place to play golf in Australia, all things considered.


The good news is that the club has now engaged the right person to fix that. Now we just need to empower him with sufficient scope.

[Anthony Butler]

I haven't played Lost Farm or Cape Wickham as yet, but any ranking that has Kingston Heath outside the top 5 and NSW outside the Top 10 has zero credibility.

Kingston Heath attained his rightful and lofty position before Barnbougle, Lost Farm,Wickham and Peninsula North were built - or rebuilt. You can moan about it's position - or celebrate the reality we now have much better golf than we did 30 years ago. 6 in Australia is awfully good now - miles better than it was.
NSW outside 10 is outrageous if you are rating the experience of playing there.
Not so much if you are rating more than that.
And for sake of argument - let's say the other 98 courses are roughly in the right place (and there aren't many glaring errors) and two courses marginally out from where you think they are then the list has zero credibility?

Mike-does saying a list has zero credibility qualify as a moan? I would think a complaint would have to stretch to at least a couple of sentences to qualify as a moan... or have Australian tolerances for opposing viewpoints shortened drastically since I was there in Dec '18. 

As you're no doubt aware the fixes currently proposed for New South Wales are mostly about addressing the playability and maintenance of the course given the extreme weather conditions experienced at this site. Will that increase the perception and ratings for the course? I don't know. Everyone who doesn't play there regularly (ie. people who live in Melbourne) seems mystified as to why it has enjoyed such a lofty place in the world ratings over the last 20 years... To your point, it's not about the architecture.

Royal Adelaide is rated too high based on its supposed architectural heritage... particularly as it doesn't enjoy many of the qualities  that make New South Wales such a unique playing experience.

I can't really comment on the full rankings as I've only seen the 30 listed in the OP. I will say  the word "sad' as applied to Commonwealth's fall in the rankings should be changed to 'long overdue' especially in light of your comments about the significant  improvements at the top end of Australian course rankings.

[Mark_F]

 

 
 Sorry....Kingston Heath at 6?
 
 
 I have not seen/played the latest iteration of PKGC North but someone must have sprinkled fairy dust on it for it to jump into that league.
 

Greg,
As a proud member of the Kingston Heath isn't that good club, and a Peninsula member, I should obviously be chuffed at the above positions, yet I still wonder whether the North course is that good.

It is undoubtedly a better course than before, it's on a vastly superior piece of land to KH, and 1,2,3,7,12,14,15,17 and 18 are as good as anything at the Heath, yet I can't help but feel some of the newer bunkers are either over the top or superfluous (4, 10, 13,16), a couple of holes are still as bland as before (9, 16), and the one glaring weakness of the course - a long of high quality long two shot holes - still hasn't been addressed. I also don't feel the changes made to 6 and - especially - 13 have resulted in better holes.

or have Australian tolerances for opposing viewpoints shortened drastically since I was there in Dec '18. 

Australians have become a nation of sad, trans-loving snowflakes.  The good old Aussie larrikin who had a healthy distrust of authority is long gone, save for a few remnants.
 

Everyone who doesn't play there regularly (ie. people who live in Melbourne) seems mystified as to why it has enjoyed such a lofty place in the world ratings over the last 20 years...

Maybe because it just isn't that good, Anthony.
I don't think much of Lost Farm either, but it's best few holes - 5,6,14,18 - are miles better than anything at NSW, and it's worse holes - pretty much everything else - aren't anywhere near as bad as the horrible stuff at NSW.
Tom and his crew have obviously turned a complete shithole at the National into a fine course, so there is always hope he will be able to do the same for  you.

I can't really comment on the full rankings as I've only seen the 30 listed in the OP. I will say  the word "sad' as applied to Commonwealth's fall in the rankings should be changed to 'long overdue' especially in light of your comments about the significant  improvements at the top end of Australian course rankings.

I wrote sad because that really is the case with Commonwealth.  It's always been my favourite Sandbelt course to play, and it's a pity those who aren't its custodians think more of the course than those who are.
If you want to moan about rankings, Peninsula South is far more hard done by than NSW.  Even with it's poor off fairway vegetation, it's a vastly superior course to NSW.

[Pete_Pittock]

Don't see Yarra Yarra. Has it slipped that far?

[Matthew Mollica]

Yarra Yarra is not included in this edition of the rankings as it is a work site currently. I expect it to return and feature in a prominent position in 2022.


Always interesting to read people’s views of these rankings lists. Everyone has an opinion - even if they haven’t seen many of the courses under consideration.

[Scott Warren]

Australians have become a nation of sad, trans-loving snowflakes.  The good old Aussie larrikin who had a healthy distrust of authority is long gone, save for a few remnants.
 

Mark,


That’s the second transphobic comment you’ve dropped in a week.


In the words of your beloved good old Aussie larrikins: shut the fuck up, you dickhead.

[Brian Walshe]

The criteria for GA is biased towards architecture and there isn't a category for "wonderful place to play" so NSW has taken a bit of a tumble.  It is a magnificent site but there are some pretty average holes out there. I have no doubt that Doak and Co will improve the course significantly if given the chance, although the National Park side of things might prevent as much change as perhaps some might like.  As for Kingston Heath, RMW and the two courses at Barnbougle are seriously good.  Wickham is spectacular and has some amazing holes.  So realistically KH as it stands would be 5 except Peninsula North comes along and moves the needle.  It's also worth remembering that KH probably has more traffic than the 5 above it which would impact conditions.  Again, KH is a wonderful place to play golf and a fantastic club but those two aren't criteria.


Anthony, I look forward to hearing what you think after you play PK North.  Might just be that it did cop a dose of fairy dust.

[Scott Warren]

.

[Mike_Clayton]

.


I've always thought it's hard to rate a course where there can never be a legitimate debate as to its merits because so few see it - and those who do are likely to be wowed by things other than the architecture.

I think I know which course you are referencing Mike. It is hard to separate setting from gca as they are part of a package and as long as there are oceans and water views that real estate is at a premium for a reason.

Jeff,


I was referring to Elleston - no water view but with beautiful, long views of inland Australia.

[Mike_Clayton]

Anthony,


31-70.
Pt Fairy
Concord
Kennedy Bay
Portsea
Breakwater
Magenta Shores
Joondalup
Grange West
Glenelg
The Australian
Spring Valley
Bonville
Grange East
Hamilton Is
Moonah Legends
Long Island
Vintage
Eleanor
Royal Sydney
13th Creek
Terrey Hills
Meadow Springs
Huntingdale
Curlewis
Eastern Sth
Hope Is.
Riverside Oaks - Bungool
The Cut
Sanctuary Lakes
Healesville
Settlers Run
Stonecutters
Glades
Moonah Open
Ranfurlie
Kalgoorlie
Cranbourne
St Michaels
Links Lady Bay

[James Bennett]

Pete Pittock
I visited Yarra Yarra a few months ago - I am on the GA ratings panel.As Matt Mollica mentioned, they asked to be excluded from this list - their request happened in the final month.
My personal view on Yarra Yarra - of all the courses that I have seen over the last two years, no course had improved more than Yarra Yarra.  It gave me a genuine joyful grin to see what has already been achieved.  I've seen photos of subsequent work on the southern paddock holes and that just adds to the excitement.
I felt that the improvements at Yarra Yarra were more significant than the rebuild at Peninsula.Do I expect yarra Yarra to make the top 10 in two years time?  Probably not, but it is definitely a place to go for a fantastic game of golf again.
James B

[MKrohn]

Couldn't come up with any massive disagreements about where things sit in the Top 30 (need to play the new Gunna and PK), beyond that its all a bit of a nonsense.


If the ratings are architecture based (I haven't seen the magazine), one of the "darlings" was Newcastle which now sits next to C'wealth. I presume Newcastle has  fallen over the years (MM, fact check needed). The couple of times I've played its been in poor condition, is that is what is hastening its demise? Or those bloody mosquitoes.

[James Bennett]

Since 2012, Newcastle has drifted from 16, 17, 18, 26 (in 2018) to 27 in 2020 list.So, the major drift happened two years ago.

There have been a lot of new courses since 2012, and not much has happened at Newcastle for several years.The third just had a bunker removed which in my opinion has improved the hole.The fourth had bunkers added at the shot point which seem overly busy for the style of Newcastle GC.
There are plans for additions on the back nine which enable the removal of holes like 17 and 18 (enabling valuable land sale).However, nothing has happened yet.The good news is that Bob Harrison has been advising the club.
James B

[MKrohn]

Thanks James, I had forgotten about the proposal to lease the land out the front. It's in their 2018-23 Strat plan.


I guess as you say the largest part of the drift is simply better courses being made or remade.


As a former Novacastrian, it always pleased me to see the course rating well, albeit my grandparents had some aversion to going anywhere near Stockton.

[Mike_Clayton]

Pete Pittock
I visited Yarra Yarra a few months ago - I am on the GA ratings panel.As Matt Mollica mentioned, they asked to be excluded from this list - their request happened in the final month.
My personal view on Yarra Yarra - of all the courses that I have seen over the last two years, no course had improved more than Yarra Yarra.  It gave me a genuine joyful grin to see what has already been achieved.  I've seen photos of subsequent work on the southern paddock holes and that just adds to the excitement.
I felt that the improvements at Yarra Yarra were more significant than the rebuild at Peninsula.Do I expect yarra Yarra to make the top 10 in two years time?  Probably not, but it is definitely a place to go for a fantastic game of golf again.
James B

James,


I too applaud the changes at Yarra Yarra - it's going to recapture much of what they had when Alex Russell left them a brilliant course.
It depends which rebuild you are talking about at Peninsula but when Yarra was one of the best courses in Melbourne in the early 1970s, Peninsula was probably the poorest course on a great site in the world. That has to make its long-term journey to where they are now more significant.
If you are arguing 2010 to 2019 then it's a different question.


The other thing that's significant and important about Peninsula is it's now by far the best vegetated sandbelt course because it's the only one with exclusively indigenous plants. In that way it's a lesson into how the rest of the sandbelt should be planning the next phase of management of the trees.

[James Bennett]

Mike
I was talking about 2010 to 2019.  And, more particularly the last two years.Yarra Yarra was trying to get things in order two years ago, but it wasn't working.  It is now.

I agree - the redevelopment of Peninsula over the last 15 years or so is fantastic. Especially the North Course.  It would lead the list in OZ.

James B