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Thomas Dai

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TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« on: December 17, 2019, 03:17:43 PM »
For a while now I have been collecting and colouring old b&w photos of TOC and St Andrews as they once were.
Not all are golf course architecture, some are more general scenes and famous players.
A GCA thread would seem to be a good place to collate them for more widespread viewing.
No more narrative, just the photos.
Enjoy
atb










































































































































































 :) :) :)

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2019, 03:32:25 PM »
Wow, great collection, thanks for posting!

Peter Pallotta

Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2019, 03:53:12 PM »
Thank you, Thomas. Wonderful.

The photos brings a question to mind again that I'm not sure I ever got/understood the complete answer to:

In those days did people play most of their golf in the fall/winter/spring months, and not in the summer?

And, if so, what would the conditions likely have been like? Slower/wetter/softer than the (potentially) dried out, hard and fast conditions of the summer?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 03:55:37 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2019, 04:22:12 PM »
I love the overhead showing the train yard and sheds. I never saw that before, nor really understood what was there other than the classic view from the 17th tee looking at the wall and sheds.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2019, 04:29:33 PM »
I’m still bloody incandescent at what the Links Trust have done to Old Tom’s shop.
F.


PS But great old photos, Dai!
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2019, 04:55:43 PM »
Also nice photos showing a couple of the lost Eden holes - great looking bunkering.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2019, 05:05:01 PM »
Thanks all for the kind words.
As I discover more of such TOC-StA photos I shall post them. I already have some of a few other notable courses, eg ANGC, Dornoch, N Berwick, Pebble Beach etc and will put them on separate threads when time permits. Some have already been posted on other threads, eg those raised by Duncan about Cavendish and Bury.

The business about the level of summer-winter etc play has long puzzled me too although when I started looking at old photos like some of these I noticed that in many of the photos folks are wearing more summery weather clothes, their certainly not bundled-up in multiple layers with woolly hats and thick gloves etc.  I'm sure there's someone posting herein who has a good answer though.
The StA train yards and sheds seem to have covered quite a significant area, more so for only being a relatively small branch line. Guess this shows how important the railways were in times now well past. Although I can't recall at the moment where I saw it I have recently seen a map/diagram of old-TOC where the lines of play are indicated and the diagram shows players playing parallel to the wall from the 17th tee not over the corner/sheds. It would be a guttie era diagram I saw though.
Below is another photo that I omitted from my original post.
atb


« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 05:16:28 PM by Thomas Dai »

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2019, 05:06:07 PM »
Also nice photos showing a couple of the lost Eden holes - great looking bunkering.


+1
And even more reason for personal incandescence!
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2019, 08:02:18 PM »
Wonderful stuff T..


Nostalgia ain't what it used to be. OH wait a minute....yes it is!


With my Dad connected to St. Andrews University ofttimes we as kids were in this area in the very early fifties.  So memories of the Auld Grey Toon are nice when recalled like this.


Thanks Col
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2019, 09:42:36 PM »
That is a fabulous post. These things tend to get lost in the archives, so maybe ask Ran to post it in "Best of Golf".


Thanks for posting.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2019, 10:14:14 PM »
Fantastic collection of photos. What strikes me is how the turf seems much tighter and more manicured than I would have expected.

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2019, 08:06:43 AM »
Fantastic collection of photos. What strikes me is how the turf seems much tighter and more manicured than I would have expected.


Do you see the grounds crew with the scythes and the wee windrows behind them?  All for the love of the game (and a few shillings).


There are so many questions and comments that come to mind looking at these great photos. 


  • Look sharp - play sharp.  That hasn't changed!
  • Was Old Tom, like, the mayor of St Andrews?  He's presiding over a number of momentous shots.
  • Love, love, love seeing the crew and the working people: Tom Morris staff, the cart vendor, the grounds crew.  History isn't written about them, but couldn't have happened without them either. I hope somewhere up there they are warmed to know their visage resonates with a future generation.
  • Is that guy on the road hole setting up to play the carom off the wall?
  • Love the pride in the grounds crew and the equipment.  From the scythes to that monster machine to the collection of tractors and equipment. 
  • When your competitors stand around in the bunker with you, no one's thinking "better leave a fair lie for the next guy".
  • Why do they hold the bags with the opening pointing downward?  Don't the clubs slide out?
  • When you say you color these, would love to know what your process is.
This collection of photos is the best thing I saw on the internet today!
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2019, 08:21:04 AM »
David forget the Greenkeepers and the “love of the game” in those days golf was an elitist sport, they were working hard to feed their families!


Is it my imagination or was there a bunker on the right of 18 or is it the corner of the road?
Cave Nil Vino

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2019, 10:00:28 AM »
Great photos Thomas

A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2019, 10:01:30 AM »
Awesome, Thomas.   

I'm not always a big fan of colorization (in movies) but I have to admit that your techniques brought several of the scenes more to life for me.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2019, 10:11:08 AM »
Awesome, Thomas.   

I'm not always a big fan of colorization (in movies) but I have to admit that your techniques brought several of the scenes more to life for me.


100% agree.   The way you have colored these in makes it much easier to engage the subject matter, particularly details that color brings out. 
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2019, 10:54:10 AM »
So given this image, is the beer cart really a modern amenity that's killing the game.  Looks like the old time chaps knew better too!  ;D



Anders Rytter

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Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2019, 03:14:29 PM »
This is great, thanks for sharring

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2019, 08:06:28 AM »
David forget the Greenkeepers and the “love of the game” in those days golf was an elitist sport, they were working hard to feed their families!


Is it my imagination or was there a bunker on the right of 18 or is it the corner of the road?


Mark


Many of these photos date from 1900 onwards and it's hard to argue that golf was an elitist sport during this period, especially in Scotland and St Andrews. I'd even argue it wasn't an elitist sport before then as well.


Niall

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2019, 08:33:02 AM »
So given this image, is the beer cart really a modern amenity that's killing the game.  Looks like the old time chaps knew better too!  ;D





NON alcoholic. 4th hole is named after this very stand.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer




http://www.allthingsginger.co.uk/ginger_beer_hole.htm
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 08:43:25 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2019, 08:40:39 AM »



Amazing thanks.


Calling Scott McPherson...




It looks to my eye that there was a buried mammoth just before the road hole bunker that would have deflected some running shots?  Not something I recall today or can see in Google images?
















Also look how square the green was.  Thomas do you have dates for these photo's?






















« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 08:46:13 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2019, 08:48:46 AM »
So given this image, is the beer cart really a modern amenity that's killing the game.  Looks like the old time chaps knew better too!  ;D



NON alcoholic. 4th hole is named after this very stand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer

http://www.allthingsginger.co.uk/ginger_beer_hole.htm



Yes...is this Daw Anderson serving the ginger beer?

ATB...very, very fine!  Is it possible to get black and white photos of the ginger beer scenes?

Happy Hockey
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Philip Caccamise

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2019, 01:08:47 PM »
Also nice photos showing a couple of the lost Eden holes - great looking bunkering.


I'm probably in the majority thinking the Eden is a wonderful 16 hole golf course, and desperately needs the 14th and 15th to be blown up and redesigned. It's a treasure otherwise.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2020, 06:32:59 AM »
It's been a while since I posted these and here are a few more accumulated in the period since.
Enjoy.
atb




















Below - greenkeepers playing Quidditch! :)









« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 08:23:44 AM by Thomas Dai »

Clyde Johnson

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Re: TOC and St Andrews as they once were - lots of photos
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2020, 07:34:03 AM »
Thanks for posting these pics David.


It's interesting how much deeper Cockle Bunker is today. I wonder if that was to hold sand in from wind erosion? They've lost the cool fold on the left entrance at some point.


There's lots to be seen in those aerials above. How much more appealing does the Road Hole look with room to play the angles!? I wonder when they did away with the cross bunker short of the second on the New...that would have been a hellish approach down the prevailing wind? A good look at the early holes of The Eden too.