News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2003, 05:51:02 PM »
Matt, I cannot disagree on there being alot better land which champioship golf is played on and the site is dull flat land. Once one accepts that, I like the holes, their routing and the green complexes. I do not like how they keep the greens so slow much of the year for slow grainy green especially big ones are no fun. This is not a top 100 course but, it is a very good solid test of golf. It also is a very good golf club with a large number of very good players too. I just do not think it should be run down. We flatlanders do have to draw the line somewhere. Even a flat chested woman has value and can be world class in bed. lol
Logged

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2003, 05:55:58 PM »
Matt-
Are you talking to me?.?.?
Houston isn't great.  But it's warm in Feb. and has some good courses.  Champions is one of the better, and as previously mentioned an outstanding "club" led by a great dictator in Mr. Burke.  The cypress greens were recently resurfaced.  There are some good subtleties around the course.  And some good holes.  Jack Rabbit is much improved.

MarkT-
Wildcat has 36 holes.  I think there are 3 very good holes on the Highlands course  (5).  And I only hate 1.5 holes.  Best elevation changes in Harris County - as it was built on a land fill.  I'd put it in the middle of my previously mentioned public fare.  I enjoy walking it, but there are a few stretches.  I don't know why they needed returning nines, as it doesn't return to the clubhouse.  As for the other 18, the lakes course (4), I don't think as highly of it.
Matt Swanson is the teaching pro at Wildcat, and has a golf school there, and is a friend of mine.  I highly reccommend him.  The amenities and service are first rate.
Logged
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Matt_Ward

Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2003, 05:56:25 PM »
Tiger:

I know of ant hills in Houston that must seem like the Rocky Mountains compared to that scintilating land that Champions occupies. ::)

P.S. You're right about the flat women still making some moves in the bedroom but try on dulllllllllllllllllllllllllsvilllllllllllle for size. That's Champions p-a-r-d-n-e-r! Get a woman like that and you know what happens next ...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Logged

Thomas_Brown

Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2003, 10:39:59 PM »
Matt Ward -
I walked Champions in 1997(didn't know Steve Lang then).  I recall following Scott Hoch in a practice round.
I thought the elevation change on holes 4 and hole 2(I think it's 2) were quite compelling.  Furthermore, some of the green complexes were I thought were fairly strategic and well designed.  On 4, Hoch hit a 4 wood to 10 feet w/ the pin on the left front corner.

IMO - A lot of the better holes at Champions are on the front nine.

How much elevation change is there at TOC?
Should I knock it off my personal top 10 list.

Is Champions one of the greats? No.
Is Doral Blue Monster?  So many of the tours stops are based on some sales & markeeting criteria.  Look at where the pros keep playing in Ireland and Scotland.

BTW - I wish I travelled and played as much as you.  :)

Tom
Logged

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2003, 09:43:19 AM »
Mike Nuzzo-

To equate Jack Rabbit to Carlton Woods is pure folly!  While the former is a fine companion to Cypress, the latter could very well be the best course I've played in Texas south of Dallas (with Whispering Pines as a toss-up).  Relationships should not get in the way of objectivity. ;)

Personally, I like Champions-Cypress, and fall more into the Bernhardt camp than Ward's.  For all but the longest players, one must hit the ball solidly to have a good approach to the greens.   And these are so large that there can be a 4 club difference depending on the position of the pin.

As a 36-hole players' facility, it may be the best in Texas.  I understand that the club has an ungodly number of low single-digit handicap players.  
Logged

Jamie_Duffner

Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2003, 11:32:31 AM »
I've heard good things about Wildcat.  Greg Norman's Meadowbrook Farms in Katy is worth fighting the traffic on I-10.

BTW - Houston - 84 degree high yesterday, Dallas - 57, shows the vast difference a couple hundred miles and Gulf of Mexico make here in Texas.
Logged

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2003, 12:10:54 PM »
LOU!!!!

Folly?
Is there a difference between folly and pure folly?

Please explain...
Logged
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2003, 12:24:47 PM »
Mike-

I'll allow Dr. Moriarty who is always asking for precise definitions from others to address that.  Let's just say in general that suggesting that Jack Rabbit is the equal of Carlton Woods does not help your reputation as a young man of discernment.  ;)  
Logged

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2003, 12:33:07 PM »
Matt, I am glad we found a middle ground here. For the record, I am a tit man though. lol I am looking forward to play Carleton Woods and Jack Rabbit this year. I hope to catch Whispering Pines during a dry period for it is a great golf experience.
Logged

Matt_Ward

Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2003, 01:10:16 PM »
Tiger / Lou / Mike / et al:

The issue of Champions boils down to this -- it may well be among the "best" for Houston but what does that have to do with the rest of the nation. Not a thing!

The course is simply dullsville and when I think of other layouts that could / should host the Tour Championship I don't equate Champions as a prime choice -- or even a secondary choice.

I don't doubt that the folks who play there are good golfers --hats off to the founders for that. But, Champions is deadly dull from an architectural perspective in my mind. I enjoy long course but the greens are sooooooooooo big you could have a doubles match and still have plenty of room left over.

Like I said before -- Champions is the Belfry of Texas. ;)

Thomas Brown:

I appreciate your opinion but we see it from two different perspectives. The sad fact is that plenty of tour sites are chosen for a host of reasons and the quality of the layout is often not a chief concern. I also don't believe the Blue Monster at Doral is any big shakes either.
Logged

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2003, 05:52:07 PM »
LOU!!!,
While they aren't exactly of equal quality, on a logorathimic chart they're close enough.  Carlton loses a point from me for a few items - huge walk to 10 and the "new" 17th being most prominent.

Matt -
No one said that houston was great or even good, we were suggesting places to play when it's 20 degrees in Jersey.  There sure was a lot of ice on Alpine's greens during the winter gathering....

Paul -
To your original question.  I'd also look into Westwood Golf Club.  It may be opening soon.  A complete renovation by Keith Foster.

Tiger -
Would you return to Blaketree?  While it has some problems, due to their tinkering, it is fun.  You also might look into Westwood on a future trip.

Logged
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Matt_Ward

Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2003, 06:14:55 PM »
Mike --

I can't speak to the recently opened layouts that have come on line in Houston (the one built in the old garbage area does look quite promising), but let's be a bit more straight about Houston -- if you don't pass out from the humidity in the summer (don't forget the size of the mosquitos -- many of them could suck the blood out of a cow in about 30 minutes or less! ;D) then you have to deal with the deadly dull layouts that populate the area.

I can't thing of a major metro area that has the most undistinguishable land for golf beyond what you see in  Houston. Sorry p-a-r-d-n-e-r -- I'd rather take my chances with winter golf in Tony Soprano land. ;D
Logged

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2003, 09:04:14 PM »
 8)

Hey Matt.. notice how I've bowed out of defending Champions,.. though I really like most of the green complexes ( with many many pin locations and subtle and not so subtle contours) and especially the par 3's, and a good number of the 4's ?    As I said its a great test for us mere mortals, and i don't care about the 1957 gca.. its a golf club, nothing more , nothing less.. nuff said..

but you should have seen Riley roll in a 60 footer today for birdie at 8 and then Darren take it over 9's dogleg trees out at 280 yds today.. after his bogey at 8.. magnifico grande stuff!

So, how was Lajitas?  You've been silent?  Isn't it flatter than Houston?

When are you going to come and visit Southern Montgomery County?  We're in the start of the hill country..

Whats a matter for you?  Enjoy your winter!

Wildcat..
May have hills, but I don't like the use of them on more than a couple of holes.. I beleive Wildcat was built before Reliant stadium..  It has some fun quotient, but very difficult to enjoy first time out, or even second because of quirks.  Third time was the charm for me, but now I'd go for others first.. unless business client is buying..

The Lakes 18 area was I believe the borrow site for covering the landfill which Wildcat is built on.. mosquito heaven some days unless wind is blowing..
« Last Edit: November 06, 2003, 09:05:35 PM by Steve Lang »
Logged
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2003, 09:04:28 AM »
Mike I would return to Blaketree in a second. The tinkering is disturbing but there is enough left for it to be very high on the fun to play list in greater Houston.
Logged

texsport

Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2003, 10:41:38 AM »
A funny thing happened at the Tour Championship! A dull, flat, poorly designed golf course produced a winner who just happens to lead the Tour in ball striking! What an accident!



Texsport

 
Logged

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2003, 12:23:03 PM »
Someone mentioned Whispering Pines above.  

I cannot find a listing for it in Trinity at www.golfcourse.com, but I can find many other courses with the same name in other states.

Can anyone help out on this one?

Logged
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2003, 12:30:58 PM »
Logged
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2003, 03:54:41 PM »
Mike:

How far apart are Whispering Pines and Crown Colony?

Can they be covered in one day?
Logged
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2003, 04:11:43 PM »
Never been to CC.  But Mr. Duran once had that same plan.  Hopefully he'll let you know how it worked out for him.
I don't think it was a twofer day.  More like play/drive/stay/play.

Whispering Pines had some excellent holes.  I highly reccommend it.  Hell of a peaceful location too.
Logged
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2003, 04:25:01 PM »
 8)

Whispering Pines is on the North Side of Lake Livingston (~ 1 hr north of Woodlands, and are you referring to the Crown Colony von Hagge Course in Lufkin?  With sunlight running out at 5:30 PM, doubtfull you'd get both in and enjoy it.  I'd recommend 27-36 at one venue a day or 18 at Whispering Pines and 18 at Waterwood National (P. Dye) on south side of Lake Livingston .. watch out for small gators in creeks there!

Andy Hodson (Hod) who posts occasisionally here is the pro at Whispering Pines (he lives in The Woodlands), which is a unique private club and just hosted the Spirit International with 26 nations' amatuers playing..  You should email him as he may know more about travel time to Lufkin courses, It's a bit of a haul up Highway 59 about 50-60 miles because of all the small towns you have to pass through, so you can't cruise at 70 mph.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2003, 04:30:57 PM by Steve Lang »
Logged
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2003, 04:54:27 PM »
steve lang:


I tried to send you a private message but maybe you haven't gotten it.

Please email me at:

plr940@interaccess.com

I have a few questions for you.

thanks!
Logged
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2003, 05:15:43 PM »
Paul, Lou and I did that one day. It is a nice contrast in styles and both are great courses. I think it is a tough play in January to do both in a day.
Logged

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2003, 09:48:54 PM »
steve

Yes, the Crown Colony in Lufkin.
Logged
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2003, 07:58:01 PM »
Any thoughts on Waterwood National? ;) ???
Logged
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dallas, Houston, or Tulsa
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2003, 08:07:33 AM »
Quote from: Paul Richards on November 11, 2003, 07:58:01 PM
Any thoughts on Waterwood National? ;) ???

I've been meaning to go myself for some time now...
I've only heard good.
Logged
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back