Access Request - weird story

[JC Jones]

Do you carry a Chicago Golf Club golf bag? Before this thread carrying a golf bag from a club where you are not a member was the most egregious example of Stolen Valor that I had seen. Somehow, somewhere this kids friend of a friend thought you were a member of a club where you are not. It happens to me from time to time and is always interesting to find out why.

Would someone seriously carry a bag with a logo of a club to which they didn’t belong?

Lay off trying to be the moral compass of GCA - I don’t appreciate the competition.

I'll always defer to your sensibilities over mine. 

[Mike Hendren]

The real fashion faux pas is this: who among us has owned and sported a Members Only (the brand) jacket? I have not but did wear a leisure suit (corduroy, thank goodness) in high school. Does a JC Penney tag count as a logo?


Bogey

[JC Jones]

The real fashion faux pas is this: who among us has owned and sported a Members Only (the brand) jacket? I have not but did wear a leisure suit (corduroy, thank goodness) in high school. Does a JC Penney tag count as a logo?


Bogey

Members Only jackets pre-date me; but I can confess to having a San Francisco 49ers Starter jacket.

[Mike Hendren]

Ian,


GCA has an excellent and vibrant reciprocal process. It is found in the Personal Messages section of the site.

Awesome. If I ever have the urge to play "Friendship Village", I'll hit you up.

When I got the IM to play Cypress Point Club, I thought it was a scam. I literally had never heard of an "Unescorted Foursome". I just corresponded with Admiral Mauz on a different topic, and we both agreed that we missed "Uncle Bob":





That was a great era, and that is the 17th green at Cypress Point Club. 


I have an Instagram account, and if you want to play with me and my Autistic son on a 45 degree day at Hotchkiss Golf Course, send me a message!! Life is an evolving process...

Mike, you have ruined my day with this pic. 
Gene is a dead ringer for Patrick Reed!

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ian,


GCA has an excellent and vibrant reciprocal process. It is found in the Personal Messages section of the site.

Awesome. If I ever have the urge to play "Friendship Village", I'll hit you up.

Im going to go out on a limb and say John isnt very intimidated by your D-list Chicago membership and the $500/year you pay to a public course in Scotland.


But it sure is fun to watch you flex your status as being someone some kid mistook for a member of a real club.

Feel better?


Not looking to intimidate anyone actually. Been puzzled how/why JK always talks but doesnt ever appear to say anything.
It's like this place is his thorzine or something.



That limb you are on bares an uncanny resemblance to a coat rack of empty suits that prefers invective and confrontation over substance and discourse.


I asked a real question.
Many here replied with thoughtful insight. You did not, so why are you even contributing? What do you seek?


It is always the same few who believe being obtuse and confrontational somehow makes them look bigger or clever.


I think you should know that it has the opposite affect.


I believe you are someone who needs to be avoided from here forth. There is an odor about you.

[Lou_Duran]

JK,


Will you email me a copy of your contact list along with a letter of introduction under your letterhead and digital signature, preferably in Word with editing enabled, and generic enough that I can use it anywhere.  I would send you my top 10 bucket list courses, but asking you to handle the details is crossing the line even among such good friends.  Thanks in advance.


I am simpatico with David W on this one.  Ask nicely and perhaps you shall receive, but always ensure how the contact was made.  I've been asked for references on similar requests and it is not a burden.

Lou,


If I understood what any of that meant I would gladly comply. I would suggest that a man your age cut his bucket list down a bit. I've heard that many of the finest east coast clubs now require a minimum space of 8 inches between your tits and your belt. Sorry bud.

I didn't mean to one up the master of the obtuse.  Sorry.  Noticing all the great courses you play regularly, I was just asking for a copy of your Rolodex and a letter to warm the cold call.


As to the second point, I had my wife make the proper measurements and I should be good, at least in the NY metro area and north.  My bucket list is slowly dwindling, though perhaps not on pace with time remaining, thus a plea for your help.     

[PCCraig]

Ian,


GCA has an excellent and vibrant reciprocal process. It is found in the Personal Messages section of the site.

Awesome. If I ever have the urge to play "Friendship Village", I'll hit you up.

Im going to go out on a limb and say John isnt very intimidated by your D-list Chicago membership and the $500/year you pay to a public course in Scotland.


But it sure is fun to watch you flex your status as being someone some kid mistook for a member of a real club.

Ian's club is a far, far cry from the "D-list."

[PCCraig]

Ian,


Back to your original point, it's clear that the person who reached out to you was just looking to belt notch some list of courses. It's pretty clear he wasn't interested in spending time with you, but wanted you to sacrifice your time and efforts to help them achieve this goal of theirs.


I think most, if not all, posters on here are happy to share their home courses to those interested. It's fun to share in an experience, especially with fellow golf nerds. It has less to do with where you're playing but with whom, although given this crowd the conversation is fueled by architectural interest. I'd go play with JK at his Florida club, wherever it is, as I'm sure it would be entertaining.


It was a lot of work to set up, but perhaps one of the most rewarding experiences for me was when Jeff Sherman and I hosted a crew of 20 out of towners at WBYC before the 2018 Mashie. Again, it's fun to share the course, but it's also fun to share in the grand experience that is a Super Soup dinner in the golf house.


Essentially, I think it comes down to authentic experiences and requests, and nothing about the original request was authentic.

[Duncan Cheslett]

I receive requests all the time from members of this discussion group to host them at my club. More often than not I have never met them before but I always agree. I have met many great people in this way and have made many new friends.


Admittedly, access to my club is not difficult to obtain, but the principle is surely the same.


I'm very happy to play golf in a country where access to top courses is dictated solely by the ability to pay, rather than working some "old boys' network".


There is a certain irony that GB&I has gone one way while the USA has gone the other. One would imagine that the situations might be reversed...




... do snobbery and class count for more than money in the USA?

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ian,


Back to your original point, it's clear that the person who reached out to you was just looking to belt notch some list of courses. It's pretty clear he wasn't interested in spending time with you, but wanted you to sacrifice your time and efforts to help them achieve this goal of theirs.


I think most, if not all, posters on here are happy to share their home courses to those interested. It's fun to share in an experience, especially with fellow golf nerds. It has less to do with where you're playing but with whom, although given this crowd the conversation is fueled by architectural interest. I'd go play with JK at his Florida club, wherever it is, as I'm sure it would be entertaining.


It was a lot of work to set up, but perhaps one of the most rewarding experiences for me was when Jeff Sherman and I hosted a crew of 20 out of towners at WBYC before the 2018 Mashie. Again, it's fun to share the course, but it's also fun to share in the grand experience that is a Super Soup dinner in the golf house.


Essentially, I think it comes down to authentic experiences and requests, and nothing about the original request was authentic.

Thanks, Pat.
It actually wasn’t the initial inquiry that was interesting, but the conviction in the pursuit of a goal that I would think would be rather unattainable given the lack of personal network.


Now, I do believe US golf should be more like Scotland or the UK when it comes to access. When we lived in Europe in the late 90’s, I always loved the ability to call a great course in England and arrange a match.


Also love that guest fees at a course like DOrnoch are $30 or so. US golf has been hyperbolically comPlicated and my dumb thread just underscores that I realize.

[JC Jones]

Ian,


GCA has an excellent and vibrant reciprocal process. It is found in the Personal Messages section of the site.

Awesome. If I ever have the urge to play "Friendship Village", I'll hit you up.

Im going to go out on a limb and say John isnt very intimidated by your D-list Chicago membership and the $500/year you pay to a public course in Scotland.


But it sure is fun to watch you flex your status as being someone some kid mistook for a member of a real club.

Feel better?


Not looking to intimidate anyone actually. Been puzzled how/why JK always talks but doesnt ever appear to say anything.
It's like this place is his thorzine or something.



That limb you are on bares an uncanny resemblance to a coat rack of empty suits that prefers invective and confrontation over substance and discourse.


I asked a real question.
Many here replied with thoughtful insight. You did not, so why are you even contributing? What do you seek?


It is always the same few who believe being obtuse and confrontational somehow makes them look bigger or clever.


I think you should know that it has the opposite affect.


I believe you are someone who needs to be avoided from here forth. There is an odor about you.

Ian, you didn’t ask a real question; the thread should have been labeled OT and your sole purpose in starting this thread wasn’t to discuss architecture or golf courses but to make yourself feel better for giving this poor kid his come uppance.  I like to chuckle at your sense of superiority.


I have plenty of posts dating from today to years before you adorned these pages where I discuss architecture and golf courses.  It’s amazing how your posts never ignite any of those thoughts.....despite your many edits.

[mike_beene]

Let's go to ,Luckenbach Texas with Waylon and Willie and the boys. This successful life we're livings got us feuding like the Hatfields and McCoys.

[Lou_Duran]

Dear Mr. Beene,


In the twilight of my golfing years, it is my goal to play the top 10 courses in Dallas and Fort Worth in the company of my son.  My impression from lurking here is that as a man of your great quality and influence in the golf community, this should not be a difficult imposition on you.


If you could arrange amiable hosts for us over the next several months, hopefully good players and interesting conversationalists, we would like to have balls in the air around 1:00, preferably on Fridays, but Saturday morning, say at 10:00 works as well.  It goes without saying that we will be responsible for our own expenses (though we prefer to carry our own bags and munch on the free snacks if possible).


Your favorable response is highly anticipated.


Yours in golf,


F. Harvey Schwartz




P.S.-  if there is a "Golf" Top 100 course in Luckenbach and these Waylon, Willie, and the boys are sticks, we'd like to play there as well.   






 

[JMEvensky]

P.S.-  if there is a "Golf" Top 100 course in Luckenbach and these Waylon, Willie, and the boys are sticks, we'd like to play there as well.

Pedernales Country Club is probably just barely outside the Top 100 but you do get Willie (health permitting).

[Tim Gavrich]

Ian, how would you rewrite this guy's initial note such that it would have made you respond favorably to his request? Is that even a possibility?


Certainly okay if the answer's no, IMO, because no matter what you'd be taking a couple different risks agreeing to provide access for someone you don't know personally.


Access to exclusive golf courses feels more attainable than ever due in large part to the proliferation of photos of them on social media. Before all that came about, part of what hooked me on Golf Club Atlas a decade and a half ago (!) was the opportunity not just to read in-depth essays about courses, but to gawk at the accompanying photo sets, which gave me first looks at holes I had had no idea I wanted to see someday. I have to think that for a while, GCA was the only place you could see photographs of certain private courses. Nowadays, I would guess a lot of people come to GCA having first looked at courses on Instagram.


Looking at a beautiful photo of a golf course makes it easy to imagine ourselves there. It's seductive, so it's not surprising that people are being bolder now in trying to gain access. I think it's having a democratizing effect on the pursuit of access, and since we're in the early stages of that process playing out, this thread feels like an example of a new paradigm still unsure of its footing.

[Sean_A]

Ian

I think left field access requests have been happening since the advent of email.  I feel sorry for folks who are in a position to be swamped by requests...I can only imagine what club pros go through.  My approach is to always be open and take people at their word until I know otherwise.  Sure, there are people (and their mates) who I would be willing to go more out of my way to accomodate, but I would try to help most anyone who approached me.  Its not in my nature to be exclusionary, but knowing people have been and will be generous and welcoming with me makes it easy to keep an open mind.  You never know who's around the corner to meet.  It might be a disaster, but a chance meeting could also change your life for the better. I look at it like this, many times I have offered a game to anybody and everybody on this site.  How can I then get a sore head about a left field request? That said, I wouldn't contact Joe Six Pack out of the blue for a game, that takes balls.  But if ya gottem' swing em'   

Happy Hockey

[Tony_Muldoon]

Do you carry a Chicago Golf Club golf bag? Before this thread carrying a golf bag from a club where you are not a member was the most egregious example of Stolen Valor that I had seen. Somehow, somewhere this kids friend of a friend thought you were a member of a club where you are not. It happens to me from time to time and is always interesting to find out why.

Would someone seriously carry a bag with a logo of a club to which they didn’t belong?

I agree, lets start by kicking them off here pronto.


I nominate that Ran bloke, used to do it all the time. Now he has a MacKenzie!  Double banning!!!

[John Kavanaugh]

Please don’t lose sight of the fact that Ian was asked for access to a club where he is not a member. That has happened to me and is offensive on so many levels. I can’t tell you how many times people who know I go to Nebraska have asked me to get them on Sand Hills. It’s kinda like driving a Hyundai.

[Sean_A]

Please don’t lose sight of the fact that Ian was asked for access to a club where he is not a member. That has happened to me and is offensive on so many levels. I can’t tell you how many times people who know I go to Nebraska have asked me to get them on Sand Hills. It’s kinda like driving a Hyundai.

Well, thats another matter!  I wouldn't be offended, more likely find it funny, but I probably wouldn't respond unless the person they mention was a good friend.  If so, I would assume one or both of us forgot about the upcoming request...I forget shit all the time.  Even so, I would certainly check with my friend and if it checked out, I would help if possible because I am really helping a friend, not the stranger requesting a hook up.

Happy Hockey

[Jeff Schley]

Karma and paying it forward certainly is part of the universe. A good friend of mine put a round into a charity auction for a threesome.  The winner showed up by himself that day and they hit it off, by the end of the round he was asked if he wanted to join this guy's annual Long Island golf trip with his buddies to Shinny, NGLA, Sebonack, Maidstone.  He of course said sure I'd love to.  It gets better as when he asked him what dates should be book his flights the guy said, don't worry we are taking my plane!

He has done it each September the last 3 years.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Do you carry a Chicago Golf Club golf bag? Before this thread carrying a golf bag from a club where you are not a member was the most egregious example of Stolen Valor that I had seen. Somehow, somewhere this kids friend of a friend thought you were a member of a club where you are not. It happens to me from time to time and is always interesting to find out why.

Would someone seriously carry a bag with a logo of a club to which they didn’t belong?

I think we both know the answer to that question. I am leading up to a serious Stolen Valor question myself. At the end of this year I will no longer be a member of Prairie Dunes and over half the shirts I wear on a daily basis, and one headcover and my Yeti cooler from which I go from coffee to Bloody Mary every morning sports their logo. Yea, and even my original leather Mackenzie bag has a yucca plant on its side. Ouch.


I suppose that being an ex-member in good standing gives me certain rights but it will never be the same.

John,


I think as a former member of the club you are well within your rights to retain your logo merchandise.


However, if the guilt is too much and you want to part with that MacKenzie bag and Yeti cup at a discount, let me know!

[Peter Pallotta]

For guests at exclusive clubs maybe the pro shops should only sell underwear. 
That way only the people you love (or really like) will ever get to see the logos.
You get to keep your scruples and dignity -- and if a friend of a friend ever mistakenly calls for access you'll only have yourself to blame!
   

[Tim Martin]

Why even respond to such a request? What am I missing?

[JC Jones]

For guests at exclusive clubs maybe the pro shops should only sell underwear. 
That way only the people you love (or really like) will ever get to see the logos.
You get to keep your scruples and dignity -- and if a friend of a friend ever mistakenly calls for access you'll only have yourself to blame!
   

There was a man who graced these pages for a short while that collected antique Rolex watches, conducted fireside chats with our leader, maintained a blog on WASP fashion and educated us all, in an Emily Post sort of manner, the ways of the dignified.  I miss him.

[John Kavanaugh]

Why even respond to such a request? What am I missing?

I doubt that Ian even told the kid that he wasn’t a member of CGC. Stolen Valor!!!


JC,


Jeff was the first guy I knew to wear Johnny O. He was a true influencer.