[Dave McCollum]

I've really loved watching the PC and precision required of the best golfers on the planet.  My question is how expensive is it to fine tune a course to this level of perfection?  It seems Augusta like in over-the-top conditioning.  I know my own course would have to spend a fortune getting the greens and surrounds into comparable condition and that most of our golfers would go elsewhere in disgust because we'd be making the golf too difficult.  Also, that there is lots of mowing labor.  But once these investments have been made, is this level of conditioning sustainable for every day play?

[Tom_Doak]

Royal Melbourne is in excellent condition for day to day play, but it's not often as firm as you are seeing on TV. 


You can only take the Enterprise to Warp 8 for a few days . . . if you try to keep it there she'll blow up.  I doubt the greens will be speed rolled again for a while after today. 


It's kind of like working out; the harder you go, the more rest your muscles need to recover, but at the same time it makes your body stronger.


I should say, though, that the budget for maintenance there is nowhere near to the levels you see at Augusta National or indeed many other top clubs in America.  I don't know the numbers, but I would be willing to bet that Royal Melbourne maintains 36 holes for twelve months of the year, for less than Augusta maintains its 18 holes plus par-3 course for its eight month golf season.

[William_G]

no less than Tiger Woods ended his press conference yesterday with essentially "this course is really how golf should be played"

[Pete_Pittock]

It just became Zinger's best course ever

[Anthony Gholz]

Most of the discussion here and  on other threads has been on the grass and then, secondly, the non rake raking of the bunkers.  However, the bunkers themselves are not uniform to my eye.  They have a bit of the foliated soil dark look at the top and when the boys hit the sand it looks dark below.  Is the sand in the bunker really very thin with soil beneath.  Or is there some kind of liner system which I don't know a thing about?


Anthony

[William_G]

Most of the discussion here and  on other threads has been on the grass and then, secondly, the non rake raking of the bunkers.  However, the bunkers themselves are not uniform to my eye.  They have a bit of the foliated soil dark look at the top and when the boys hit the sand it looks dark below.  Is the sand in the bunker really very thin with soil beneath.  Or is there some kind of liner system which I don't know a thing about?


Anthony

my impression is that is all natural sand from the sandbelt there, no liners or any BS like that
the natural sand there compacts tightly due to it's structure and is obviously darker than average
the flat rakes are hand made on site, uniformity in a hazard is about as overrated as it gets in golf
check out that Youtube video posted on another topic
never been but looking at flights, LOL
lots of golf in that sandbelt area of Melbourne
cheers

[Pete Lavallee]

I’m also very curious about the nature of the natural sand there. A very observant local golfer commented on how the bunkers appear white but once “excavated” they are dark. I honestly can’t think of any other courses that exhibit this feature. Why exactly is that?

[Peter Pallotta]

no less than Tiger Woods ended his press conference yesterday with essentially "this course is really how golf should be played"

And that first day he played it brilliantly -- always knowing the right shots to hit and having all the skills needed to hit them. A big plus in my book for a course's quality: when the very best play it best of all.

[archie_struthers]

 




Man sure looks great to me. The combination of the elevations and contours in concert with the firm and fast look like so much fun. It is true that most of our customers wouldn't appreciate this on a regular basis but man oh man I sure would enjoy it. Just a hoot trying to figure out the angles and spin to put on the ball. Tiger showing signs of being among the best again without a doubt that little skipper he just hit was awesome.


The third hole par three had one option today, hit it left of the hole  with some cut spin! Be back gotta keep watching lots of fun!

[James Bennett]

The sand is all natural on-site sand - it goes down a long, long way.
The fines are darker, and the angular pieces are silver.The faces tend to hold the silver with the darker fines washed to the floor.Any moisture is apparent in the darker fines - light grey if dry, darker depending on what moisture is there.But the faces will be gleaming, as the fines have been washed out over time.

[ward peyronnin]

I am curious after hearing several times that McKenzie's presence on site was limited.

Maybe this question has been already answered but who is responsible for the installation/construction of the features? What a wonderful job of interpreting plans and puttin touches on them

[Kalen Braley]

A few questions/thoughts about the bunkers.


#1)  From what i could tell on TV, they seem to play easier for the better players given the preponderance of flat lies as they don't stick on the sides and avoid down slopes or nasty fried eggs.  Yes they looked to have pretty high lips, but the only time they seemed to be an issue to these guys is when they were very short sided.


#2)  The bunker surrounds looked pretty wild and wooly.  How much is this stuff maintained or do they really just let it go?.  One bunker even looked to have a shrub growing in it, but no doubt they are some of the coolest bunkers I've seen.

[Luke Eipper]

I am curious after hearing several times that McKenzie's presence on site was limited.

Maybe this question has been already answered but who is responsible for the installation/construction of the features? What a wonderful job of interpreting plans and puttin touches on them

Royal Melbourne was constructed by Mick Morcom. He was the original Superintendent at the property and he was responsible for building the Mackenzie and Russell designs. In fact, Morcom's involvement at Royal Melbourne pre-dated Mackenzie by 20+ years.


Morcom was also responsible for building Mackenzie's style bunkers at Kingston Heath.


Unfortunately, Mick Morcom doesn't get the credit he deserves when it comes to Royal Melbourne.  While he didn't design Royal Melbourne, he pioneered the construction of it and in doing so created a template for how bunkering was constructed on the Melbourne Sandbelt.



The other unsung hero of Royal Melbourne is a fellow by the name of Claude Crockford. Crockford  took over from Morcom in 1937 and was the Superintendent until 1975. Under his watch he nurtured the new designs of Mackenzie and Russell and is responsible for creating  the Royal Melbourne firm and fast greens we know today.

[Jason Topp]

Did it adequately test drivers and long irons? 

[BHoover]

Did it adequately test drivers and long irons?

I think this illustrates, yet again, how the governing bodies and professional tours have been asleep at the wheel in protecting the integrity of the game, at least with respect to limiting distance.

[Lou_Duran]

Royal Melbourne is in excellent condition for day to day play, but it's not often as firm as you are seeing on TV. 


You can only take the Enterprise to Warp 8 for a few days . . . if you try to keep it there she'll blow up.  I doubt the greens will be speed rolled again for a while after today. 


It's kind of like working out; the harder you go, the more rest your muscles need to recover, but at the same time it makes your body stronger.


I should say, though, that the budget for maintenance there is nowhere near to the levels you see at Augusta National or indeed many other top clubs in America.  I don't know the numbers, but I would be willing to bet that Royal Melbourne maintains 36 holes for twelve months of the year, for less than Augusta maintains its 18 holes plus par-3 course for its eight month golf season.

I am disappointed to hear that the daily experience at RM is much different, though I suspected that the greens might be cut a bit longer and not rolled as often.  One of the things I did not like about the approaches is how much similar shots reacted differently- some like on 15 bounced crazily while others landing in the same general area sat down much like they do at home. 



I played yesterday with a member of a club which is spending $Millions ($3M, sound right?) on a "Greens Hydronic" sub-air system.  We were at a course which had it installed three years ago and, after a rough start through the summers, was finally sporting firm, smooth bent surfaces.


He noted how he enjoyed watching the play at R. Melbourne and the natural look of the course.   The conversation veered to another course we both had played that reportedly spends $3 Million in annual maintenance for a season that is essentially the three summer months when most of its members are in town.  As we contrasted the two courses and added Augusta National to the mix, he began to nod in agreement that attempting to fool Mother Nature at every turn despite how well off a club might be is not a good thing in his developing golf aesthetic.


Yet, I suspect that he will be very happy with his expensive bent greens while I am fine with mine grassed with TifEagle at a fraction of capital and maintenance costs.  Golf is a big world.

[Thomas Dai]

Out of interest does anyone happen to know how many days before the Presidents Cup commenced the course(s) was closed for and were any unusual or special preparation measures adopted, eg extra water use?

Also, to what extent were extra maintenance staff and extra machinery used onsite both before and during the event?
Atb

[David_Tepper]

Anyone who is expecting to see a course hosting a major global golf event to be presented "as the members play it on a daily basis" is kidding themselves. That simply does not happen. In situations I have witnessed for multiple US Opens & Amateurs, the course received less water in the weeks leading up to the event, not more. 

[Thomas Dai]

Anyone who is expecting to see a course hosting a major global golf event to be presented "as the members play it on a daily basis" is kidding themselves. That simply does not happen. In situations I have witnessed for multiple US Opens & Amateurs, the course received less water in the weeks leading up to the event, not more. 

I am  well aware that preparation takes place in advance and was looking for some exact details. This is why I wrote very specifically “does anyone happen to know”, know. I was hoping for preparation details, not speculation.
Atb

[Luke Eipper]

Anyone who is expecting to see a course hosting a major global golf event to be presented "as the members play it on a daily basis" is kidding themselves. That simply does not happen. In situations I have witnessed for multiple US Opens & Amateurs, the course received less water in the weeks leading up to the event, not more. 

I am  well aware that preparation takes place in advance and was looking for some exact details. This is why I wrote very specifically “does anyone happen to know”, know. I was hoping for preparation details, not speculation.
Atb

Paging Matthew Mollica...

[William_G]

Did it adequately test drivers and long irons?

who cares, the course and competition was great!

[Tom_Doak]

Out of interest does anyone happen to know how many days before the Presidents Cup commenced the course(s) was closed for and were any unusual or special preparation measures adopted, eg extra water use?

Also, to what extent were extra maintenance staff and extra machinery used onsite both before and during the event?
Atb

I will be happy to find out the details, but remind of this in a week or two after the crew have got some rest.


It does help that Royal Melbourne have a virtual army of talented groundskeepers and assistant superintendents, by virtue of maintaining their own 36 holes plus the Sandringham course next door.  When we stripped off the sod on the greens of the 5th and 6th West to do work to them a few years ago, they rounded up a crew of 15-20 guys and did almost all the work by hand.


I know that there were a few guest greenkeeper helpers on hand for the Presidents Cup, but I don't think it was anywhere near the level at The Masters or the U.S. Open, where a lot of head greenkeepers from other courses pitch in for the week.

[Anthony Gholz]

Tom:


Does RM own Sandringham or is the grounds deal just a smart move for both clubs?  Isn't Victoria right around the corner?


Anthony

[Dave McCollum]

Thanks gents for your responses.  Hopefully, some members or local supers will respond to our questions.  I can't think of a TV event at a course I haven't seen or played that I have enjoyed as much as RM.  Portrush came close, but I had played there in the wind, rain, the brutal rough after a wet year, before the renovation, and while they were punching the greens!  Still, I remembered it well and really enjoyed to broadcast.


My last trip to Bandon we had to play around their maintenance schedule.  One day they closed a course, I think Dunes, for top dressing.  I was intrigued and went out to look.  Sure enough, they were top dressing the entire course, everything but the greens.  I had never seen such a thing and must of calculated what it would have cost, but discarded that data as quickly as the price of a G5 for my personal travel budgets. 


Another time I told our esteemed colleague, Don Mahaffey, our maintenance budget.  Now Don is a guy that preaches keeping the golf in line with what golfers are willing to pay for it.  And telling us that at Wolf Point they buy a tractor that can pull a gang mower and cut and bail the hay with they same maintenance crew and equipment.  He confirmed, somewhat skeptically, that we understand this concept pretty well because we have to.


Golf is golf and comes in all sizes and shapes for golfers similarly configured.  As wonderful as it is to see the best golfers play the perfect course, it is quite a different thing to view this as a standard we should aspire to attain.  That was what I was getting at when I started this thread.  Many commentators have viewed RM as an "aspirational" (Trump's fake word) example of sustainability and what golf should be, but is it really?  A good start would be if somebody other than TD (he can't) would post what it cost to put this course in this condition, and then we could all do the math what that would mean for our clubs.   It ain't that complicated.  And I'm sure we could all dismiss the BS and reconfirm what we already know.       

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I think this illustrates, yet again, how the governing bodies and professional tours have been asleep at the wheel in protecting the integrity of the game, at least with respect to limiting distance.

And I think it illustrates how you can have a good test of golf, and an exciting event, under the current rules and regulations.

who cares, the course and competition was great!

Agreed.

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