OT: Presidents Cup-chat thread

[Ben Malach]

I wanted to be the first to start this thread about the matches at Royal Melbourne. It will be interesting to see how the course plays in match play.


If you want to live chat the match I have setup a chat server on discord (the link works for 24 hours):


https://discord.gg/Qc3ahv

I will also be live streaming some alternate commentary via twitch come the weekend. if anyone want to join in and live chat golf. I will be doing that through the discord as well.

[Kalen Braley]

First thoughts on the coverage.


Overall the course looks terrific, a bit rugged and certainly plenty F&F.  Do they have precision sprinkler heads in the fairways?  Looks to be precise with watering on the fairway and nothing just a few paces off it as its golden brown and whispy. Or is that just a function of the grasses they use?

[Jason Topp]

I forgot how many reverse camber holes are out there

[JC Jones]

These guys seem to be battling flies as much as the course.

[Tom_Doak]

These guys seem to be battling flies as much as the course.

The flies in Melbourne are definitely a factor this time of year, if you are not used to them.  Of course only 3-4 of the International team has much experience with them, either.

[Mark_F]

These guys seem to be battling flies as much as the course.

It's - supposedly - summer in Melbourne.

Of course they are. Doesn't help that insect repellant won't work anymore.

[Chris Mavros]

IMO, the US pairings were not ideal.  Bryson is a match play head case, especially in teams.  I would have sat him and instead matched  Finau and Woodland, then DJ and Fowler.  It may not have mattered, the International team is putting beautifully. 

[Matthew Rose]

It looks a bit greener than usual... I think the spring was slightly wetter than usual and *definitely* colder; the really really hot days have been few and far between so far. Granted as a transplant that doesn't bother me in the slightest, but the locals aren't really happy about it.

Every day the rest of the week is supposed to be a little warmer than the one before, up to Sunday.

[James Bennett]

Re the green fairways - I think RM uses sprinklers installed on the fairway edge with half-circle.  I know Royal Adelaide does.The aim is to water the fairways and leave the rough unirrigated.
Royal Adelaide is hosting the women's Open in February, and are currently irrigating the fairways, with a narrow soaker being used manually to ensure the fairway edges get water (and the rough doesn't).  The soaker probably irrigates 100 yards long and a yard wide.

[Jay Mickle]

A visual feast. Fun to watch regardless of the match. Only caught the final 5 or so holes last night but will be sure to record the next 2 days. Tiger was an inspired captains pick.

[Mark_F]

the really really hot days have been few and far between so far. Granted as a transplant that doesn't bother me in the slightest, but the locals aren't really happy about it.

This local doesn't mind the cooler weather at all, Matthew.
As good as it was to watch today, there is a sharp demarcation between the fairway edges and the wispy rough which looks quite jarring.  Similarly odd - or distasteful, depending upon your thinking - are all the different grasses around the greens.  Legend to fescue to something? then the bent of the greens.
It looks quite odd.

[Kalen Braley]

the really really hot days have been few and far between so far. Granted as a transplant that doesn't bother me in the slightest, but the locals aren't really happy about it.

This local doesn't mind the cooler weather at all, Matthew.
As good as it was to watch today, there is a sharp demarcation between the fairway edges and the wispy rough which looks quite jarring.  Similarly odd - or distasteful, depending upon your thinking - are all the different grasses around the greens.  Legend to fescue to something? then the bent of the greens.
It looks quite odd.

Mark it was certainly very striking to me as well, and I don't necessarily think thats a bad thing.  But if they were going for a naturalistic look, it seemed an odd transition from green to burnt out yellow rough just a few feet away.


P.S.  Perhaps it was just the camera angle and refracting light, but those greens looked like budding Poa...

[Lou_Duran]

Is the PC being played on the composite course?  If so, which holes from the East course are included and which holes from the West are taken out?  Is the West Course on its own a World Top 10?


Watching the pros struggle with approach shots and most anything on and around the greens, I can't imagine how a bogie man would play the course.  With tentative plans for early March, I will need to practice moving the ball back in my stance and hitting down with just the proper weight.  It looks horrifying.  On the plus side, maybe I can get my drives out to 250 once again.  Then what?


I didn't know that the greens were bent.  What happens when the summer temps approach 40°+ C?  Does it cool enough at night that the greens aren't stressed?

[Mark_F]

Mark it was certainly very striking to me as well, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing.  But if they were going for a naturalistic look, it seemed an odd transition from green to burnt out yellow rough just a few feet away.

I guess once they planted all of those different grasses around the greens Kalen, that thoughts of natural went out the window...
I did think the same about the greens too.

Is the PC being played on the composite course? 

Yes.

If so, which holes from the East course are included and which holes from the West are taken out? 

1,2,3,16,17,18 East, 8,9,13,14,15,16 West.

Watching the pros struggle with approach shots and most anything on and around the greens, I can't imagine how a bogie man would play the course.  With tentative plans for early March, I will need to practice moving the ball back in my stance and hitting down with just the proper weight.  It looks horrifying.  On the plus side, maybe I can get my drives out to 250 once again.  Then what?

I recommend Heathmont pitch and putt if you are bricking it already.  $11 a round, saving you about $739 from the rapacious overseas green fee RM now charge.

I didn't know that the greens were bent.  What happens when the summer temps approach 40°+ C?  Does it cool enough at night that the greens aren't stressed?

It doesn't get to 40º that often.  I'm pretty sure that didn't happen once last summer.

[Dave McCollum]

Bent is fine in the heat.  What it doesn't like is heat & humidity.

[James Bennett]

Mark Ferguson
21 January was damn hot - Adelaide reached 46 the preceding day.  However, such hot days are rare in a summer but not uncommon.
Lou Duran
the greens are a mix of grasses, and aren't a modern A1/G1/007 type bent.Your comment on the appearance of the greens is accurate, but they putt beautifully.If/when you do visit, bring a sand wedge with a sharper leading edge than you might usually use, with less bounce.  Don't expect a bunker with deep, fluffy sand.  There can be a loose top layer but the bunker sand (the natural sand) can compact compared to imported sands.  The darker fines will wash out onto the bunker floor leaving a silvery face.  If you get some rain, the bunker floor can appear quite dark.
The fairways were common couch (bermuda) and were updated to a Legend couch (bermuda) a decade ago as it is more drought tolerant.  The rough doesn't typically have this grass in it, and it doesn't get irrigated hence the dramatic colour change.The fescue surrounds were chosen to allow a ground game with the firm greens.  The couch can cause a ball to prop, and the greens material isn't really suited to surrounds.  So, a three grass mix for fairways/surrounds/greens is used.  There is a reason they went to this.  By the way, the Legend couch doesn'tplay as 'fast' as Santa Ana couch, which is important given the severity of slopes on some holes.  The ball would run even further away down slopes if a finer couch was used.
James B
ps some details on the routings are on the other thread.  Hope you visit next year - remember to be in touch if you do.

[Mark_F]

Mark Ferguson
21 January was damn hot - Adelaide reached 46 the preceding day.  However, such hot days are rare in a summer but not uncommon.

Adelaide is in the middle of the desert though, James.     I'm positive we had no 40º days last summer, and it hardly ever gets to mid forties in Melbourne.

It's such an incongruity that it gets so hot in Adelaide given how disgusting your water is.

[Tim Leahy]

This course may be an architectural masterpiece but right now it's playing like all it needs is a windmill and a clown's mouth.
Also I don't know if it's just the US coverage but there is no excuse to miss whole shots and not even show a replay. I will DVR it so I can skip all the commercials.

[William_G]

This course may be an architectural masterpiece but right now it's playing like all it needs is a windmill and a clown's mouth.

not sure I get the clown's mouth comment


maybe what you are seeing is just how golf should be and you might actually get pretty good at it if you became familiar with it
reminds me of Bandon Dunes Golf Resort


it's so fun to watch the ball roll and bounce


cheers

[James Bennett]

Mark 

check January 25 this year.  The cool change did kick in early afternoon though.
James

[Sean_A]

Mark it was certainly very striking to me as well, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing.  But if they were going for a naturalistic look, it seemed an odd transition from green to burnt out yellow rough just a few feet away.

I guess once they planted all of those different grasses around the greens Kalen, that thoughts of natural went out the window...
I did think the same about the greens too.

Is the PC being played on the composite course? 

Yes.

If so, which holes from the East course are included and which holes from the West are taken out? 

1,2,3,16,17,18 East, 8,9,13,14,15,16 West.

Watching the pros struggle with approach shots and most anything on and around the greens, I can't imagine how a bogie man would play the course.  With tentative plans for early March, I will need to practice moving the ball back in my stance and hitting down with just the proper weight.  It looks horrifying.  On the plus side, maybe I can get my drives out to 250 once again.  Then what?

I recommend Heathmont pitch and putt if you are bricking it already.  $11 a round, saving you about $739 from the rapacious overseas green fee RM now charge.

I didn't know that the greens were bent.  What happens when the summer temps approach 40°+ C?  Does it cool enough at night that the greens aren't stressed?

It doesn't get to 40º that often.  I'm pretty sure that didn't happen once last summer.

Wait, it costs 400 quid for a visitor to play R Melbourne?

Happy Hockey

[Thomas Dai]

This course may be an architectural masterpiece but right now it's playing like all it needs is a windmill and a clown's mouth.

Each to their own I guess.
Atb

[John Mayhugh]

This course may be an architectural masterpiece but right now it's playing like all it needs is a windmill and a clown's mouth.

Tim,
Suggest you read through Ran's profile of the course. It might help you better understand the course.
http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/australia/royalmelbourne1/

The combination of slopes, firmness, and complex greens make positioning & execution important on every shot in order to score well. If "good" shots aren't being rewarded, it's very possible they were not actually good shots.


Lou,
Royal Melbourne's courses are very playable for the bogey golfer as long as one's inclination towards heroic shots is restrained.

[Mark Pearce]

Lou,
Royal Melbourne's courses are very playable for the bogey golfer as long as one's inclination towards heroic shots is restrained.

This.  And so long as you don't slap it around as badly as I did on my visit.....

[Lou_Duran]

Thanks for the information gentlemen.  RM is my top bucket list course and I have been promising a visit to my Australian friends for many years.


I am enjoying the PC, though the way some shots take off after hitting the turf while others seemingly reacting as if the course was in Texas does concern me.  Perhaps the announcers are right about the US team not having taken sufficient time on the course to document its many nuances (and thus being unprepared compared to its opponent).   The luck of the bounce might be charming to some- and these are the top guys who have great control over their approaches- but for us mere mortals, golf becoming a guessing game, maybe not so much.  I guess very firm, hyper-fast greens are fine on some courses but not so on others.


John M- I hope to experience what you report.  My gut tells me that I'll become frustrated as decent drives will leave very difficult approaches and the weaknesses of my short game are exposed.  Watching such great putters like Fowler and Thomas not being able to keep short approach putts within 5' from the hole doesn't build confidence.