Green fees frozen in place

[Michael Wolf]

A childhood friend texted me this morning that he's back home in Cincinnati playing a course we'd occasionally play as teenagers - the Kings Island course designed by Jack Nicklaus. 


He texted because the greens fee this morning was $26. 25 years ago it was $40.


What other golf courses, especially notable ones, are less expensive now than they were 25 years ago?  Any that could go back even longer? More expensive 40 or 50 years ago? Have to be some in FL and Myrtle Beach i'd think?


Michael

[Tom_Doak]

A childhood friend texted me this morning that he's back home in Cincinnati playing a course we'd occasionally play as teenagers - the Kings Island course designed by Jack Nicklaus. 


He texted because the greens fee this morning was $26. 25 years ago it was $40.


What other golf courses, especially notable ones, are less expensive now than they were 25 years ago?  Any that could go back even longer? More expensive 40 or 50 years ago? Have to be some in FL and Myrtle Beach i'd think?

I doubt there are a lot of courses that had lower green fees 40-50 years ago.  $40 was a lot of money in those days.  I'm pretty sure that was the twilight rate for PEBBLE BEACH when my brother and I played it a bunch of times in the 1970's.


But, 20-25 years ago?  There were lots of courses charging top dollar in that day, that are now stuck "competing on price" with all their neighbors, now that their aura has worn away.  Just in my neck of the woods, places like The Bear at Grand Traverse Resort or The Legend at Shanty Creek surely charge less now than they did in the booming 1990's or even the early 2000's.  And there are a lot more courses that were $40 then and are $30 or $40 today, because that's all the market will bear up here.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Pebble Beach has not gone up much in 30 years. I am pretty sure it was $500 back in 1989.

[Kalen Braley]

Pebble Beach has not gone up much in 30 years. I am pretty sure it was $500 back in 1989.

I'm gonna call that busted Adrian!   

$150 in 1989.  Even factoring in inflation and such that would be about $300 today.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1989-01-22-8902270301-story.html

[John Sabino]

Good question Michael - I would be interested in hearing from those outside the U.S. on this, my suspicion is that in the British Isles the rise in greens fees hasn't been as high on a percentage basis as those in the U.S. I recently played Lundin Links and the greens fee was a reasonable £85.00. I'm planning next year's trip and just booked in at Silloth-on-Solway for £60, £35 if you play in winter. Very reasonable for such good courses but not as low as your deal. John

[Michael Wolf]

I've felt like the 2nd tier in the UK have risen astronomically compared to other parts of the world. It seems like the Elie's and Brora's have gone up more than anything else in the golf marketplace the past 10 years? I have zero documentation to support the claim. I know a lot more places were free when I'd turn up in the afternoons 20 years ago.


On the flip side, I'm in the midst of finalizing a big trip to Australia for next February, and yowza does the Fx rate help American visitors right now. St Andrews Beach for $55!


Tom you are of course correct on Northern Michigan prices. Boyne Highlands is definitely less than at least 30-35 years ago.


Michael

[Tom_Doak]

Good question Michael - I would be interested in hearing from those outside the U.S. on this, my suspicion is that in the British Isles the rise in greens fees hasn't been as high on a percentage basis as those in the U.S. I recently played Lundin Links and the greens fee was a reasonable £85.00. I'm planning next year's trip and just booked in at Silloth-on-Solway for £60, £35 if you play in winter. Very reasonable for such good courses but not as low as your deal. John

It depends on how far you go back.  In 1982-83, I kept track of the green fees everywhere I played.  THE HIGHEST green fees in the UK that I paid were at The Old Course and Wentworth -- they were £15.  The courses you name above were between £5 and £10.

[Thomas Dai]

I recall paying a similar figure to the one Tom mentions to play TOC at that time. Less in the winter and no mats then either.
One place greenfees really seem to have leapt up in the last couple of years is Ireland.
Pricing is awkward though, cherry on the cake vrs visitor dependency and all that and should things go awry it can get difficult and standards may go down or members end up having to put their hands in their pockets to fund the new Clubhouse etc that the committee thought that visitor income would pay for which, in remote areas in particular, can cause issues.
Atb

[A.G._Crockett]

It would be REALLY interesting to see the inflation-adjusted cost of rounds thru the years.  I'm guessing that the results would be all over the map because there is such a wide range of situations; the amount of competition in a given area, the wide range of both quality and prestige, the practice facilities, debt service on the land, and so on. 

I'm too lazy right now to try to find a link; I'm sure it's out there.  Maybe later today...

[Sean_A]

I've felt like the 2nd tier in the UK have risen astronomically compared to other parts of the world. It seems like the Elie's and Brora's have gone up more than anything else in the golf marketplace the past 10 years? I have zero documentation to support the claim. I know a lot more places were free when I'd turn up in the afternoons 20 years ago.

Michael

+1. I think fees for well known 2nd tier courses have essentially doubled in the past 10-12 years. The same is probably true of some big guns as well.

Luckily some smaller courses have more or less stagnant fees. Hello Cavendish etc. Mind you, on a percentage basis a 5 quid rise is a lot!

Happy Hockey

[Thomas Dai]

I suspect that without meaning to our postings and enthusiasm and the web and social media in general may have had a hand in pushing up the fees at second tier courses. I guess from a £ perspective folks herein had best visit the third, fourth etc tiers soon, and quietly too! Shame.
Atb

[Tim Martin]

I’ve seen this play out for a bunch of CCFAD(Country Club for a Day) style courses in the area of the country I live in. Easy to pick up on where rates have dropped into the two figure range that were previously over $100.

[Joe_Tucholski]

He texted because the greens fee this morning was $26. 25 years ago it was $40.

Do you think the weekday November rate in Ohio was really $40 25 years ago?  Maybe it was and course operators are being more efficient in pricing models to fully utilize their courses based on demand and make the small margins in order to stay open.


The peak rate looks to be $49.  A $9 increase over 25 years does seem low (a 23% increase).  Not quite the $14 drop mentioned.

[John Kavanaugh]

Initiation fees into private clubs have either dropped dramatically or disappeared to the point I'm surprised anyone is left paying green fees.

[Joe_Tucholski]

Initiation fees into private clubs have either dropped dramatically or disappeared to the point I'm surprised anyone is left paying green fees.

Do you know of any that have lowered their monthly or annual fees?  Are initiation fees being replaced with assessments?

[John Kavanaugh]

If I did I wouldn’t say. It’s a dynamic situation. Give your money directly to a club not some own nothing society. That is how golf will survive.

[Michael Wolf]

Joe,


I'm gonna guess that Kings Island would have been as high as $75 on weekends when they were at their peak. Amazing how quickly the bubble burst once they stopped hosting events.


Michael

[Ronald Montesano]

May I respectfully stow away in your luggage? I will do so in a clandestine manner, bring my own oxygen tank, and pay the weight overage.

I'm in the midst of finalizing a big trip to Australia for next February...

[Michael Wolf]

Ron,


Come South my friend.


Michael