The new world-wide handicap system begins January 1, 2020

[Brock Lynch]

1. Cheaters will find a way to cheat, no matter the system in place.
2. I thought the real money players are on the PGA Tour.

[jeffwarne]

1. Cheaters will find a way to cheat, no matter the system in place.
2. I thought the real money players are on the PGA Tour.

nope, they're playing for sponsor's money

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

And so the madness goes on. Why don't they just ask players what handicap they think they should have? Just glad as a professional my play is not affected by this terrible system.

Jon,


I have noticed that in Sweden, the club pros have handicaps as well. They can play in competitions. Is this done anywhere else or is it just something peculiar to Sweden?

[Jon Wiggett]

Jon--Not all of us are lucky or skilled enough to compete at golf without  a handicap.  I'm sorry you regard it as madness, but handicaps are what make golf a great game for 99% of us.  It is what separates us from other games that can't be played with people of varying abilities.

Jim--You are right that that is a risk.  But slower play is not a given.  Honest estimating is needed.  I believe it can work without slowing down play.

Jim,


I am very much in favour of a handicap system. The handicap is one of the things that makes the game of golf so great. That two people regardless of age or ability can have a competitive game is almost unique in sport. For most golfers in the UK golf is a social event where they knock a ball round a course with a group of friends. Playing serious handicap rounds is not the majority experience and talking with most golfers I meet I suspect the new system will not go down well.


We have taken what was a simple system that people could grasp and turned it into an over complicated mess removing peoples choice to decide whether to play a fun round or not. The fact that players are allowed to estimate what they think they might have scored shows how invalid this system is in reality. I am sorry but the US system was poor and now the ship of fools at the R&A is also going down this deluded route. It is as if they want to kill the game in the UK.


On the other hand maybe it is enlightened and I should apply to work for the R&A. I am sure that they won't expect me to really do an entire days work but instead will be happy for me to finish at lunch and estimate what I feel I would have worked in the afternoon 


The CONGU was perfectly good as a system.

[Jim Hoak]

Jon, I don't disagree with anything you say.  And I'm certainly not arguing that the US handicap system is better.
But, it needs to be recognized that the US system, with virtually all scores being required to be reported, and only a very few being reported as Tournament scores and then only lasting longer in the system, produces a different handicap result than does the CONGU system.  The US system is not better; it's just different and gives different results.  US golfers do not play regular stroke-play or medal rounds, and that practice is not going to change.  Our system grew out of that fact.  The exact same golfer, shooting the exact same scores, would have different handicaps in the US and under CONGU.
So, with the increased mobility of the world's golfers, the governing bodies tried to see if there could be a common system that could produce a fair, comparable result in handicaps that could be used in international play.  Maybe that goal can't really be achieved because of the different styles of play of golfers in different countries.  We'll see how it works.
But the thing I believe is not proper is to continue to act like our differing systems currently produce a fair basis for international competitions.  Most analysts believe that the CONGU system, only counting rounds played under the pressure of tournament play, produces a substantially higher handicap than does the US system (although this conclusion is just what I've been told.  I can't cite any reported study). 
Maybe a simpler solution might have been to try to generalize what the handicap differential between the two systems is on average and adjust handicaps accordingly when international play is involved.  I would guess (with no analytical backup) that a 20% increase in US handicaps might be required.  Given the fact that most play for anyone is not international, and that golfers are wedded to their own national system based on their style of play, this might have been a better result, and it may be where we go eventually.

As an aside, I wish I had not used the term "honest estimating."  The US system doesn't use that term, but rather is more elaborate in its discussion.  I was trying to generalize the more specific instructions, and I may have confused the discussion.  For example, the US recommendation is to not putt out putts that don't matter, but rather to estimate if  you would make more than half of a putt of that sort--1 putt or 2, never 3.  I know there is the basis for cheating in this kind of estimating, but it is no worse than many other parts of the handicap system.  Handicaps are to show the "potential" of a player; they are not meant to be an exact number based on average scores.

[Thomas Dai]

Thanks for raising this thread Jim as things are indeed moving ahead on this matter.
In an earlier post Scott raised a good point that there is some flexibility given to national associations so it will be interesting to see how different nations administer matters.
The comparative handicaps between nations will I suspect still be a cause for discussion and dispute. This is likely to be particularly the case when those with shall we say ‘soft handicaps’, ie those with more estimation involved, come up in formal, handicap based, prize awarded competitions against those with ‘hard handicaps’, ie more factually accurate.
Atb

[Scott Warren]

Thomas,


My understanding is that in England, the standard for turning in a card for handicapping will not change — either it’s an organised competition or you declare to the pro/handicapper before a social round that you will be putting a card in.


That may not be 100% accurate — finding quality information on any of the governing bodies’ websites amongst all the sales pitch & PR-spin FAQs is nigh on impossible — but I was told that by someone who I would expect to be on the money.

[jeffwarne]

Maybe a simpler solution might have been to try to generalize what the handicap differential between the two systems is on average and adjust handicaps accordingly when international play is involved.  I would guess (with no analytical backup) that a 20% increase in US handicaps might be required.  Given the fact that most play for anyone is not international, and that golfers are wedded to their own national system based on their style of play, this might have been a better result, and  it may be where we go eventually.

You nailed it right there.


and where did that well reasoned conclusion come from?
an open discussion which yes involves negativity towards the system they have adopted which is doomed to fail due to all the current and proposed adjustmenst that each country/governing body makes for their unique culture.

[Thomas Dai]

My understanding is that in England, the standard for turning in a card for handicapping will not change — either it’s an organised competition or you declare to the pro/handicapper before a social round that you will be putting a card in.

This is also my current understanding Scott.
Atb

[Ryan Coles]

Jon--Not all of us are lucky or skilled enough to compete at golf without  a handicap.  I'm sorry you regard it as madness, but handicaps are what make golf a great game for 99% of us.  It is what separates us from other games that can't be played with people of varying abilities.

Jim--You are right that that is a risk.  But slower play is not a given.  Honest estimating is needed.  I believe it can work without slowing down play.

Jim,


I am very much in favour of a handicap system. The handicap is one of the things that makes the game of golf so great. That two people regardless of age or ability can have a competitive game is almost unique in sport. For most golfers in the UK golf is a social event where they knock a ball round a course with a group of friends. Playing serious handicap rounds is not the majority experience and talking with most golfers I meet I suspect the new system will not go down well.


We have taken what was a simple system that people could grasp and turned it into an over complicated mess removing peoples choice to decide whether to play a fun round or not. The fact that players are allowed to estimate what they think they might have scored shows how invalid this system is in reality. I am sorry but the US system was poor and now the ship of fools at the R&A is also going down this deluded route. It is as if they want to kill the game in the UK.


On the other hand maybe it is enlightened and I should apply to work for the R&A. I am sure that they won't expect me to really do an entire days work but instead will be happy for me to finish at lunch and estimate what I feel I would have worked in the afternoon 


The CONGU was perfectly good as a system.

Spot on.


Other than elite players, no need whatsoever for a world system. Presumably the players at my Club won’t now be on Golf empire looking for Opens in Argentina and vice versa.

[Mark Pearce]

Worst of all, there'll be no pre-BUDA entertainment to be had with the US players whingeing about their handicaps.  A system which worked really well to balance competitive play between golfers of different ability in regular official competitions has been sacrificed to allow continuity for a system which fails to balance play between players who rarely, if ever, compete officially or even within the rules?  Why were US handicaps, on average, lower than CONGU ones?  Because its easy to play better when not every shot counts.

[Sean_A]

Sadly, I think Ryan is correct. My guess is the new system is about figuring out how to cope with elite amateurs from around the world trying to qualify for and play in elite events. The system at this level has long had problems. It does not matter in the least if 12 marker Dick of Denmark can have a better handicapped game with 8 marker Numbnuts of New Mexico. Well, certainly not enough for practically every country in the world to have to bend to American norms. Nothing is perfect so tweaks can always be expected, but what is happening is a whole sale change to appease the US. Let us not forget, that the US has an appalling percentage of golfers who do not have a proper handicap. And to be fair, because the vast majority do not play proper comps, a proper handicap is not necessary. Essentially, the world is changing their systems to suit the culture of private American club members. Makes sense to me.

Happy Hockey

[Tony_Muldoon]

I understand why US handicaps should be 'softer ' than those obtained under real golf competition...therefore I can never understand how well the US does in the febrile intensity of Buda.


I would hate it if someone produced a list of results but the 10 or so I've been to have been pretty evenly matched. 


Go figure.... (as Giles is highly unlikely ever to say )

[Thomas Dai]

Jon--Not all of us are lucky or skilled enough to compete at golf without  a handicap.  I'm sorry you regard it as madness, but handicaps are what make golf a great game for 99% of us.  It is what separates us from other games that can't be played with people of varying abilities.
Jim--You are right that that is a risk.  But slower play is not a given.  Honest estimating is needed.  I believe it can work without slowing down play.

Jim,
I am very much in favour of a handicap system. The handicap is one of the things that makes the game of golf so great. That two people regardless of age or ability can have a competitive game is almost unique in sport. For most golfers in the UK golf is a social event where they knock a ball round a course with a group of friends. Playing serious handicap rounds is not the majority experience and talking with most golfers I meet I suspect the new system will not go down well.
We have taken what was a simple system that people could grasp and turned it into an over complicated mess removing peoples choice to decide whether to play a fun round or not. The fact that players are allowed to estimate what they think they might have scored shows how invalid this system is in reality. I am sorry but the US system was poor and now the ship of fools at the R&A is also going down this deluded route. It is as if they want to kill the game in the UK.
On the other hand maybe it is enlightened and I should apply to work for the R&A. I am sure that they won't expect me to really do an entire days work but instead will be happy for me to finish at lunch and estimate what I feel I would have worked in the afternoon 
The CONGU was perfectly good as a system.

Spot on.
Other than elite players, no need whatsoever for a world system. Presumably the players at my Club won’t now be on Golf empire looking for Opens in Argentina and vice versa.

Curious thing is that folks from a certain part of the world have for a while now been entering handicap restricted higher profile events in the U.K. and their ‘soft’ handicaps have been permitting them to gain automatic entry, there’s often a handicap max type ballot system, at the expense of U.K./other country golfers who have shall I say, more accurate handicaps.
Atb

[Ryan Coles]

Access to elite events (in truth high level domestic upwards) has been via World Golf Ranking rather than handicap for a number of years.


There is literally no good reason for the expense and disruption other than empire building.

[Pete_Pittock]

Ah. So an American golfer can play with a club member in the UK. The US golfer must post, but the UK player can post or not post, but decide beforehand. Got it.

[John Kavanaugh]

Now that the rules of golf have been complicated to the point that no one understands them or plays by the same rules handicaps have become a vital part of the game. If you play with someone you may consider a cheater he is in reality no longer cheating if he established his handicap under the same rules or lack thereof that he is currently playing. The key now to an equitable game is to allow him to cheat in the manner he always has. Of course this takes the discipline to not only not inform him of what he is doing wrong but to also continue to play by the rules you used to establish your own handicap.

[jeffwarne]

Now that the rules of golf have been complicated to the point that no one understands them or plays by the same rules handicaps have become a vital part of the game. If you play with someone you may consider a cheater he is in reality no longer cheating if he established his handicap under the same rules or lack thereof that he is currently playing. The key now to an equitable game is to allow him to cheat in the manner he always has. Of course this takes the discipline to not only not inform him of what he is doing wrong but to also continue to play by the rules you used to establish your own handicap.

Simplified rules that no one understands
and bring on some more protective netting while we all walk to our separate (but equal) $14 million  elevated tees

[A.G._Crockett]

I'm probably an outlier in this, but I'm a great admirer of the handicap system in general, and think that these changes will be good one.  The "flaws" in the handicap system are always about either the character flaws of individuals, or the flaws in the application of the system by clubs.  And really, if the club can do a good job of policing the system, the problems tend to largely go away.

[SL_Solow]

Lots of misconceptions contained in these posts.  Roll out coming soon so let's see the materials.  Incidentally, GB& I will be delayed as Course Rating has not been completed, a necessary step.  Likely done by fall.

[Jim Hoak]

I agree absolutely, SL.
I should also have mentioned that new procedures in Course Ratings worldwide are a part of the new handicap rules.

[MClutterbuck]

Agree with last 3 posters. The new world handicap is an awesome framework that can be tweaked to adapt to different realities around the world.


Competitive rounds in the US are scarce. Limiting handicap qualifying scores to competitive events does not produce a reasonable handicap to a player. It is reasonable that more flexibility is allowed.


It is also reasonable that other countries can limit conditions in which a score can be posted.


For the US, the 96% multiplier disappears but only 8 scores of the last 20 are now calculated. It is more straightforward.


For the rest of the world, we will learn the system quite quickly. It is not that complicated.


Allowing for weather adjustments, and doing so in an objective manner is an improvement.


Being able to post scores played in other continents if fair and an improvement.


Being able to play friendly tournaments, at whatever level, with friends from different continents is a massive improvement. Whatever fun you had negotiating and then arguing about handicaps will be minimized. That is good.


Having old style courses and new style courses rated fairly, is a massive improvement (some countries had systems that placed equal difficulty to a 1 yard wide stream 10 yards off the tees than water from tee to green. Other systems measured difficulties only at landing areas that were massively short compared to reality).


With regards to estimating a score, that is not allowed in my country per the set of rules i have seen, so not sure what the discussion is about.

[MClutterbuck]

Jim,


We have taken what was a simple system that people could grasp and turned it into an over complicated mess removing peoples choice to decide whether to play a fun round or not. The fact that players are allowed to estimate what they think they might have scored shows how invalid this system is in reality. I am sorry but the US system was poor and now the ship of fools at the R&A is also going down this deluded route. It is as if they want to kill the game in the UK.

Jon,


I believe you can still decide to play a friendly round. You just dont get a for handicap card issued at the start and therefore you dont need to post.


Please explain under what circumstance you think you would estimate or invent a score.

[Kalen Braley]

In post 3 and 4.  Seems to be about having to pick up due to slow play or playing match play. 

P.S.  I wouldn't think Match play would be suitable to posting scores, even under the best circumstances...

[Ryan Coles]

Lots of misconceptions contained in these posts.  Roll out coming soon so let's see the materials.  Incidentally, GB& I will be delayed as Course Rating has not been completed, a necessary step.  Likely done by fall.

The Course rating is delayed.


Those who have their ratings are still scratching their heads. There are some shocking disparities in the assessments.


SSS was not perfect. But far superior, IMO.


In fact my only main criticism of CONGU current system was how bad scores and conditions would have to get to bring a +1 to +3 CSS adjustment to SSS.


The raters don’t seem to be able to rate links golf, in particular.