ROYAL ST DAVID'S: 2019-20 Winter Tour

[Richard Fisher]

Huge amounts of blow sand meant that the greens and fairways could never get properly established. Very sadly. If you look to the right of the 16th fairway at about 100 yards from the green, you can still see a most perfect natural valley stretching up towards the cottage in the sand dunes, and this was once a hole. Indeed the 1921 proposals of C.W. Limouzin were the most radical the club has ever contemplated, and partly initiated, in its 125 years. But within a very few years virtually all traces had disappeared and the 1926 Ladies Championship (the first major British event the club ever hosted) was played over the 'old' holes, 90% of which still exist today. For those interested there is a lot more about all this in my Centenary History of the RStD Golf Club (2nd edition 2007).

Incidentally C.W. Limouzin is an architect to whom I don't recall seeing any reference anywhere else. Anybody know any more?

[Ben Stephens]

Huge amounts of blow sand meant that the greens and fairways could never get properly established. Very sadly. If you look to the right of the 16th fairway at about 100 yards from the green, you can still see a most perfect natural valley stretching up towards the cottage in the sand dunes, and this was once a hole. Indeed the 1921 proposals of C.W. Limouzin were the most radical the club has ever contemplated, and partly initiated, in its 125 years. But within a very few years virtually all traces had disappeared and the 1926 Ladies Championship (the first major British event the club ever hosted) was played over the 'old' holes, 90% of which still exist today. For those interested there is a lot more about all this in my Centenary History of the RStD Golf Club (2nd edition 2007).

Incidentally C.W. Limouzin is an architect to whom I don't recall seeing any reference anywhere else. Anybody know any more?

Hi Richard,


I have had the privilege of playing Harlech. Any chance that you can indicate on an aerial photo where Limouzin's par 3 location is from tee to green.


Really like the course however feel they don't maximise the dunes enough - Hole 11 could have been closer to the dunes. I am not a fan of 17 and 18 after playing 14, 15 and 16 it feels a bit of a let down. Could 17 have been a par 3 in the opposite direction of 16 towards 15th fairway and 18 playing as a long par 4 to the current 18th green with the fairway further west than the current 17th fairway? You might have different views of this.


Cheers
Ben

[Richard Fisher]

Ben - many thanks and sorry no, none of the historic aerials I have seen extend to that part of the course. If you look on the Patric Dickinson course plan Sean reproduced, these abandoned holes were at the far left-hand part of the plan, beyond the current 16th.

The last really big scheme for amendment of the closing loop was that of Hawtree in the mid 1960s, and this fascinating plan is reproduced in my history of the club: the Hawtree scheme would have involved changing the 14th (into a doglegged par 4), a new 15th (downhill short hole from the dunes aimed on the castle), an amended 15th becoming the 16th, existing 16th unchanged as the 17th, and a new 18th (the latter becoming a par five, dog-legging from the existing 17th tee to the 18th green, which would have made a cracking finish). But in the end lack of funds and scepticism amongst senior members of the club and the numerous internationals and Walker Cup players who belonged to RStD in those days rendered the whole still-born. It is a great seaside Might Have Been though, which in 2019 the Club would never be allowed to undertake (as the whole site is now governed by Natural Resources Wales and various scientific rules).

[Ben Stephens]

Ben - many thanks and sorry no, none of the historic aerials I have seen extend to that part of the course. If you look on the Patric Dickinson course plan Sean reproduced, these abandoned holes were at the far left-hand part of the plan, beyond the current 16th.

The last really big scheme for amendment of the closing loop was that of Hawtree in the mid 1960s, and this fascinating plan is reproduced in my history of the club: the Hawtree scheme would have involved changing the 14th (into a doglegged par 4), a new 15th (downhill short hole from the dunes aimed on the castle), an amended 15th becoming the 16th, existing 16th unchanged as the 17th, and a new 18th (the latter becoming a par five, dog-legging from the existing 17th tee to the 18th green, which would have made a cracking finish). But in the end lack of funds and scepticism amongst senior members of the club and the numerous internationals and Walker Cup players who belonged to RStD in those days rendered the whole still-born. It is a great seaside Might Have Been though, which in 2019 the Club would never be allowed to undertake (as the whole site is now governed by Natural Resources Wales and various scientific rules).

Richard


Wow thats an interesting story. Always felt that 18th is a weak link on which is a strong links layout.


Hawtree's proposed 18th sounds similar to the 18th at Royal Dublin. Will have to look at the proposals in more detail what you have written.


Harlech is where I had the best ice cream that I can remember!


Cheers
Ben