News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sort of OT - Is it time again to ask about 'frank commentary'?
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2019, 02:14:51 AM »
Delicate topic.  The feedback sandwich works pretty well.

"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Sort of OT - Is it time again to ask about 'frank commentary'?
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2019, 09:36:14 AM »
Jeff:  In general, I have found that what passes for frank commentary is a bit different than the above - the negative 'meat' in the middle is quite small, but exists even for the best courses (except if built by one or two sacred cows), if only to prove that the reviewer is smarter than the designer.


Another synonym for frank, which has amazingly not been mentioned here, is HONEST.  The problem with most criticism is that there is too much politicking and too much fluff.  Just tell me what you really think.





John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sort of OT - Is it time again to ask about 'frank commentary'?
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2019, 10:42:52 AM »
I started a thread asking for questions about my recent trip and the OP calling for frank commentary was the first to derail it with comments about Torrey Pines. Then my honest opinions about Pasa and Pebble are dismissed as trolling.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Sort of OT - Is it time again to ask about 'frank commentary'?
« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2019, 11:19:29 AM »
I started a thread asking for questions about my recent trip and the OP calling for frank commentary was the first to derail it with comments about Torrey Pines. Then my honest opinions about Pasa and Pebble are dismissed as trolling.


This was your first post about Pasatiempo :


Pasa is by far my least favorite course on the trip. I had played it years ago with GCA legends Huck, Rich and the giant USGA official. I was expecting great things. Disappointing on every level. I can not imagine it ever being included on another itinerary.

Then your second post about it was about how its place in the itinerary required extra drive time.You did make some specific criticisms much later in the thread, after I had tuned out.  Most of them could be summed up as "the course is much too hilly" for your tastes.  And it is the hilliest course that anyone supports as a top 100 layout, so pointing that out might have prompted some real discussion, had you said it that way.  But your comments were all made under the presumption that it shouldn't have been so hilly, which is impossible.I'll start a separate thread, so this one isn't jacked.

[Edits were only to clean up the formatting gobbledygook]
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 11:45:18 AM by Tom_Doak »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sort of OT - Is it time again to ask about 'frank commentary'?
« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2019, 11:23:43 AM »
I answered the questions asked. No one asked what I didn’t like.


It is appropriate on this thread to say the OP himself is not interested in frank discussion.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Sort of OT - Is it time again to ask about 'frank commentary'?
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2019, 11:46:57 AM »
I answered the questions asked. No one asked what I didn’t like.


It is appropriate on this thread to say the OP himself is not interested in frank discussion.


Fair enough, at least to your first points.  Most of what's posted here is in the form of an assertion, rather than a question.


At least the OP here was in question form.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sort of OT - Is it time again to ask about 'frank commentary'?
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2019, 06:33:29 PM »
Peter,


Not sure I have anything to say that hasn’t been said already. I second Jason Topp’s and Colin Macqueen’s  comments early in this thread (of which I have admittedly read only part).


I think the unfortunate fact (for you, and perhaps for many others) is that few people want to think as deeply about GCA as you do ... and fewer still have the experience to imagine that others will benefit from their thoughts ... and even fewer still have the need and energy to write up what they think. Thoughtful, informed, frank criticism is hard!


Best,
Dan


P.S. I recently read a piece of extraordinarily frank (or at least brutal) commentary, from James Baldwin in 1948:


“A REVIEWER handed a James M. Cain novel to discuss finds himself confronted by several problems, not the least of which is the necessity of squaring with his conscience the fact that he is discussing Mr. Cain at all. What, after all, is one to say about such persistent aridity, such manifest nonsense? Mr. Cain is no novelist: he has, indeed, his first sentence still to write; he has yet to achieve his first valid characterization. For me, at the top of his amazingly overrated form, as in The Postman Always Rings Twice, in Double Indemnity and Serenade, he was, when not downright revolting, obscurely and insistently embarrassing. Not only did he have nothing to say, but he drooled, so to speak, as he said it. It seemed much kinder, really, to take no notice of him, to adopt with him that same fiercely casual, friendly air, assumed, let us say, when visiting two otherwise harmless people who are, however, shamefully addicted to early-morning drunkenness.”

Couldn’t agree less x- and I know you are not seeking brutal commentary. But ... who cares what I think?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 06:57:20 PM by Dan Kelly »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sort of OT - Is it time again to ask about 'frank commentary'?
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2019, 05:28:09 PM »
ha ha

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back