[Jason Topp]

I may have proposed this idea years ago but thought it worth revisiting even if I have:

Imagine a well designed course that consists of holes where the shortest is 125 yards and the longest is 550.  The hole lengths are spaced at 25 yard increments in between.  The actual lengths of the holes might vary from this formula to take into account wind, elevation changes or other factors that affect how a hole actually plays. 


If my math is correct, the resulting course would measure 6300 yards.  It would feature holes that play as half par holes regardless of how far one hit the ball and offer a drive and pitch, drive and midiron, drive/3 wood for most.


Best of all - everyone could play the same tees. What would vary would be the assumed par for each player.  A scratch golfer might consider the course a par 68 (6 par 3s and 2 par 5s); a short hitter might think 74 (5 par 5s and 3 par 3s). 


It is possible that type of course would be more pleasurable than having an infinite set of tees for every class of player.  Would a 2nd set of tees be necessary for the shorter hitter?  Would it be more difficult to design holes within such a structure?


Would such a course be a good idea? 

[V_Halyard]

I may have proposed this idea years ago but thought it worth revisiting even if I have:

Imagine a well designed course that consists of holes where the shortest is 125 yards and the longest is 550.  The hole lengths are spaced at 25 yard increments in between.  The actual lengths of the holes might vary from this formula to take into account wind, elevation changes or other factors that affect how a hole actually plays. 


If my math is correct, the resulting course would measure 6300 yards.  It would feature holes that play as half par holes regardless of how far one hit the ball and offer a drive and pitch, drive and midiron, drive/3 wood for most.


Best of all - everyone could play the same tees. What would vary would be the assumed par for each player.  A scratch golfer might consider the course a par 68 (6 par 3s and 2 par 5s); a short hitter might think 74 (5 par 5s and 3 par 3s). 


It is possible that type of course would be more pleasurable than having an infinite set of tees for every class of player.  Would a 2nd set of tees be necessary for the shorter hitter?  Would it be more difficult to design holes within such a structure?


Would such a course be a good idea?

Tasty idea. Conceptually, that is the same as somebody playing up or back. Would you have a big Tee area? It would still be a different course each day.

[Tom_Doak]

That's one of the several concepts I've been waiting for a like minded client to let me build. 


We've discussed the idea here before, so you can prepare to hear how seniors and women are going to quit the game in disgust because of your idea, and the customer is always right.  (yawn)  I've been trying to convince Michael Keiser to go with just two tees on our new course  at Sand Valley, but they have five everywhere else, even though 65% of the play is from one set and the rest only see 5-10% of players.

[Jason Topp]

That's one of the several concepts I've been waiting for a like minded client to let me build. 


We've discussed the idea here before, so you can prepare to hear how seniors and women are going to quit the game in disgust because of your idea, and the customer is always right.  (yawn)  I've been trying to convince Michael Keiser to go with just two tees on our new course  at Sand Valley, but they have five everywhere else, even though 65% of the play is from one set and the rest only see 5-10% of players.

Last winter I played with my father and he had a 125 yard shot with the direct line over a pond but bailout room to the right.  He agonized over whether to hit a hybrid and whether to go at the pin or hit to safety.  I realized this was a really interesting shot for him.  This course might be a par 76 for him but I suspect he could still be presented with a lot of interesting shots if the holes are well designed. 

[Sean_A]

Jason

Your concept is very close to how tons of courses were built 100 years ago. Except there was bogey score, two sets of tees and not often quite the spread of yardage you suggest. I think two sets would be better if the course wants to attract women etc. Plus it offers opportunities for very cool tees using angles and natural features here and there.

Happy Hockey

[Pete Lavallee]

Golden Age architecture books ate full of diagrams of holes which featured options for the A, B, C & D player; all from the same tee! I suspect the new disparity between the distance the A and D player hit the ball makes this task much harder today.

[Carl Rogers]

For the two tee course, I suggest a score card (distance, stroke rating & slope) that is a combination course between the two tees.

[Peter Pallotta]

A single tee golf course would prove a lie the notion that 5 sets of tees allow golfers of various skill levels to enjoy the course in something like the same way, and to all experience it as it was intended/designed to play.
The owners would have to work overtime to develop new marketing bumph, and architects too would have to step up their games.
So, sure - I could see it happening in the next couple of years  

[Pete Lavallee]

When exactly did the notion that every class of player should be able to challenge a fairway bunker and have a 7 iron into the hole become prevalent? Why can’t the D player just tack his way around the trouble at the loss of a shot?

[Peter Pallotta]

Pete -
I don't when that notion first became prevalent, but with folks now dropping $200-300 a round plus high-end room & board I don't think it's going away anytime soon.
Few today would be happy paying that bill just (in the words Jack Woltz) to be made to look ridiculous -- which is precisely what tacking their way around hazards has come to feel like in our 6-sets-of-tees world.

[Philip Hensley]

Great idea


Instead of 5 sets of tees, have five sets of “pars”

[Brock Lynch]

That's one of the several concepts I've been waiting for a like minded client to let me build. 


We've discussed the idea here before, so you can prepare to hear how seniors and women are going to quit the game in disgust because of your idea, and the customer is always right.  (yawn)  I've been trying to convince Michael Keiser to go with just two tees on our new course  at Sand Valley, but they have five everywhere else, even though 65% of the play is from one set and the rest only see 5-10% of players.

Tom,


I'd like to hear what the other concepts are that you've been trying to get clients to let you build. As to the one tee idea, why hasn't it been done?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Except for a few holes, Pikewood National has one set of tees but they measure about 7300 yards. I would have joined if the tees were set at 6300.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

I'd like to hear what the other concepts are that you've been trying to get clients to let you build. As to the one tee idea, why hasn't it been done?

Brock:


I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you 😮


Seriously, these are ideas that I'd like to pursue, and that I think have business potential, so I'm not quite ready to hand them off.  In ten or fifteen years, if they are still in a drawer, I will bequeath them to the next generation.


If you have followed this site closely for the past twenty years, you would have read about at least half of my list at some point, but there are a couple I have not yet discussed except maybe with a colleague or friend.

[Bernie Bell]

1/  "Everyone could play the same tees. What would vary would be the assumed par for each player."  Isn't that what the handicap system already does when players of differing abilities are playing a match from the same tees?  Everyone can already play the same set of tees.  2/  Maybe runway tees aren't as bad as all that after all?

[Mike Nuzzo]

There are several different teeing spots at Wolf Point.
I've always taken our visitors to the same one for their visits.

[Mike Nuzzo]

[Sean_A]

1/  "Everyone could play the same tees. What would vary would be the assumed par for each player."  Isn't that what the handicap system already does when players of differing abilities are playing a match from the same tees?  Everyone can already play the same set of tees.  2/ Maybe runway tees aren't as bad as all that after all?

I never used to mind runway tees until recent years.  I seriously dislike it when the front of the tee blocks a view.  This is a problem for downhill tees shots and I can understand why archies want to avoid runway tees on these sorts of holes or perhaps grade the tee so a view isn't blocked.  This seems to be something that has cropped up in recent years with the rise of mega tees combined with a trend of offering as many downhill tee shots as possible.  I did notice that Trump Aberdeen managed to avoid this issue quite well.  Renaissance has (had?) an issue with the 11th.  I guess its another good reason to play front tees!  To me it just seems like basics.  If there is a view, don't design a tee to block it.  Its much the same for trees in front of bunkers...basic stuff. 

Happy Hockey   

[Bernie Bell]

I agree with that, but aren't there ways around it?  The upside is more flexibility and (I would think) ease of maintenance.  Here's a course re-done by Lester George - Ocean City Newport Bay.  Tees 1 and 10 are each 60 yards long along same line.  Tees 17 and 18 are not "runways," more boomerangs, but each is ~100 yards from one end to the other.  17 I think is especially cool because it gives so many possible angles into a hole where the wind is always a factor and the green has contour.  Pretty sure the course plays anywhere from 6000 to 6700 (tips) from more or less the same set of teeing grounds.


[size=78%]https://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/oceancitygyachtcnewp/overview.htm[/size]

[jeffwarne]

A wonderful idea-
Kindve like playing an unbastardized classic course



Bonus points
A reduced flight ball on offer for experts

[Buck Wolter]

Mike- Was this on purpose? From the pictures of WP it seems like this was more of an option than most places given the blank canvas. However it worked out I like the idea of the built in variety -- be interesting to see this for other courses.

[Jason Topp]

Thanks Mike.  I guess I have played my theoretical course and can attest it works very well!

[Thomas Dai]

What size and shape of the single tee?
Rectangular, square, runway, arc/banana?
Grass or synthetic surface?
Atb

[Jason Topp]

What size and shape of the single tee?
Rectangular, square, runway, arc/banana?
Grass or synthetic surface?
Atb

That is up to the architect.  At Wolf Point there isn't even a tee. 

[Mike Nuzzo]

Hi Buck
Yes the variety was on purpose.
The goal of the routing was to have as much variety as possible and still feel like all the holes were from the same family.


Jason
I'm glad you like your theoretical course so well.


Cheers

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