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Ira Fishman

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The Scale of Yale
« on: November 05, 2019, 09:13:19 AM »
Over on the Fried Egg, there is an interesting article and video about Yale which I loved when I played it 40+ years ago.  Doak, Hanse, and Riley Johns are on the video.  The primary point made is that tree clearing would make a major difference.  I am curious about relative to other aspects of restoration, how expensive is tree clearing?  Yes, I know it will depend on how extensive, but would be curious to hear from those with expertise/experience who take a look at the video.


Thanks,


Ira
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 09:26:33 AM by Ira Fishman »

Tim Martin

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Re: The Scale at Yale
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2019, 09:22:04 AM »
Ira-Can you provide a link for the video? Thank you.

Ira Fishman

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Re: The Scale of Yale
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2019, 09:24:20 AM »
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 09:26:49 AM by Ira Fishman »

Ian Andrew

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Re: The Scale of Yale
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2019, 11:12:26 AM »
It's not just removing trees, its getting rid of the stumps and then repairing the ground where the trees used to be.


In Yale's case there is a lot of rock and woody plant material. Cleaning that up will take a lot of labor. If you don't clean up the areas you've just cleared and provide a way into them to keep the woody material from returning, it will revert back to trees.


You will also need to clear quite wide because all the trees that find themselves on the new edge will immediately begin to send out new branches and leaves to capture all that newly available sunshine.


It's a big job.
"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

PCCraig

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Re: The Scale of Yale
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2019, 02:49:29 PM »
It's a big job.


It's a good thing then that Yale's endowment is over $29 BILLION.
H.P.S.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Scale of Yale
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2019, 03:15:11 PM »
It's a big job.

It's a good thing then that Yale's endowment is over $29 BILLION.

Third largest in North America...

You'd think they could find some scraps that fell of the table to fund this, especially considering its arguably the finest University course in the country...

https://thebestschools.org/features/richest-universities-endowments-generosity-research/

Tim Martin

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Re: The Scale of Yale
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2019, 04:11:19 PM »
It's a big job.

It's a good thing then that Yale's endowment is over $29 BILLION.

Third largest in North America...

You'd think they could find some scraps that fell of the table to fund this, especially considering its arguably the finest University course in the country...

https://thebestschools.org/features/richest-universities-endowments-generosity-research/


I don’t know the date of the video or the last time each person has seen the course but a lot of the subject work has been completed. That said the original third green has not been reinstalled to date. Finally the transformation under Scott Ramsay’s tenure over the last fifteen years has been incredible and continues to move in the right direction. 

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Scale of Yale
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2019, 04:24:25 PM »
It's a big job.

It's a good thing then that Yale's endowment is over $29 BILLION.

Third largest in North America...

You'd think they could find some scraps that fell of the table to fund this, especially considering its arguably the finest University course in the country...

https://thebestschools.org/features/richest-universities-endowments-generosity-research/


Kalen,


That is not going to happen.  However, I am hoping that some high net worth alum sees the video and accompanying article and decides to give enough to fund the rest of the restoration.  They probably would let him or her put their name on the course.  Any lurkers out there ready to step up?


Ira

JMEvensky

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Re: The Scale of Yale
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2019, 04:53:56 PM »
I believe a Golf Club Atlas contributor got involved years ago. Somebody able to work the search function better than I can probably find the links.

Tim Passalacqua

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Re: The Scale of Yale
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2019, 05:58:08 PM »
I would be curious to know more about the tree removal they are talking about.  I have been lucky enough to play out there quite a few times this year and I thought the tree removal has been great.  The playing corridors are huge and there are no trees encroaching fairways or greens.  You are never in play and blocked out by a tree.  I think it's great.  Yale is carved out of the woods, but with ample room to play.  I wonder what additional trees would make some of the features look even bigger?

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Scale of Yale
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2019, 06:25:32 PM »
I would be curious to know more about the tree removal they are talking about.  I have been lucky enough to play out there quite a few times this year and I thought the tree removal has been great.  The playing corridors are huge and there are no trees encroaching fairways or greens.  You are never in play and blocked out by a tree.  I think it's great.  Yale is carved out of the woods, but with ample room to play.  I wonder what additional trees would make some of the features look even bigger?


I think Tim is right as they have culled thousands of trees over the last fifteen years. Someone that hasn’t seen the course since 2005 would be amazed at the reclaimed sight lines on holes like 6,8,10,12, and 18.

Colin Sheehan

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Re: The Scale of Yale
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2019, 09:44:09 PM »
I agree that there isn't "significant" tree work to go. I think Gil's comments in the video are dated by the fact he hasn't been back in a while. The trees are no longer the priority at this point. Yes, we can keep nibbling along the edges in a few places and we could pull back on the left of 6 and 7 and we should probably trim more on the sandy hill right of the 9th green to give the green area more daylight. But the current situation versus the construction images isn't far off. Andy's video from October of 2018 includes the tree on 10 and the three left of the burn on 6 that are NLE. And there will be yet more work this winter.

As mentioned in the "OMG Yale" thread, there is still relatively minor green expansion needed on holes 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12 and 18, but they are mostly just an extra pass or two or three of the tri-plex. (Yes, the third hole would require rebuilding the double punchbowl which wouldn't be that difficult.)


There is only about $100K in pressing drainage work remaining on the course, notably the last 100 yards of 18 and a few other places like 6. The bunkers, of course, could use the full re-do, especially those on the front nine. If I were to prioritize bunkers, I would begin with greenside on 2, then greenside on 7, then the ones around 1, and then 6 and so forth, like 4, 5, 8, 9, 12, 13, 15, etc.

One thing we could use would be to aerify the fairways for the first since 2009.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 06:33:44 AM by Colin Sheehan »

Mike Sweeney

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Re: The Scale of Yale
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2019, 07:02:34 AM »
None of this stuff is a "one man show" especially at a big university athletic department. See Peter and Scott in addition to Colin. However, Colin has been a consistent determined step by step "improver" of all things at "Yale Golf Course". They extend beyond the architecture to the scorecard, the tee markers, the flags, and just the accumulation of stuff over the years.


The re-grassing of Navy Golf Course looks great so far, but that is not needed at Yale, imo. Navy had so many strains of grass in that complicated "Is Bermuda or Rye better" area of Maryland.


Colin,


There is early talk that the Navy Academy Golf Course is going to have a "William Flynn Memorial" of sorts when it re-opens. Perhaps a more formal "MacRaynor Memorial" would work at Yale. I realize that the golf team(s) have no space!!  :D
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark