The First Time You Knew A Place Was Different 2.0

[Jim Moeller]

Hi All,


This was last a thread in 2015, so I figured I would start a new one. I love this topic because, after all, isn't it part of why we're all here? Besides, I'm relatively new (been lurking for a while but thanks to Ran, I can now contribute) and I trust there are some other folks on here who weren't around in 2015. It could serve as a nice introduction for us newbies. So without further ado, what was the course or feature that first opened your eyes and piqued your interest in architecture?


For me, it was Tallgrass on Long Island (RIP  ) in June 2011. I played golf on and off as a kid, almost exclusively at the parkland munis of Nassau County. I never bothered with Bethpage or ventured east. Even caddying at Tam O' Shanter (RTJ Sr.) for two summers did nothing to open my eyes to architecture. But Tallgrass was different for me. WHAT'S THIS FESCUE?? WHY ARE THERE NO TREES?? I HAVE TO TAKE AN ANGLE INTO THIS GREEN?? IT'S WINDY SO I'M FORCED TO HIT A LOW SHOT THAT RUNS?? I was hooked and by the time I teed off on three, I had declared myself a links player. While I was able to play it only seven times, I can still remember so many of the holes in my mind. As many folks have noted, that's a testament to a great layout.


If Tallgrass opened my eyes to architecture, then Cape Arundel grabbed me by the shoulders and shook me, only to pull me in for a giant hug. It is my golfing happy place and no summer vacation to Maine is complete without a walk around those grounds. Having recently moved from Long Island to Massachusetts, there's now the perpetual hope (threat?) of a daytrip to Kennebunkport. What's funny is that according to my notes, I had played CAGC three years prior to that first Tallgrass round. I knew CAGC was different, but it took Gil's work at Tallgrass to trigger my appreciation for Travis and what he did at CAGC.


I would love to know how many other GCAers fell in love with architecture later in life - I was 35 when I played Tallgrass - and how many of those eye-opening rounds were the result of a modern architect's work.

[Tom_Doak]

For me it was Harbour Town in 1971.


I was ten years old and it was only the third course I had ever seen, but it was emphatically different from the others and recently rated in GOLF DIGEST's top ten, so it made a huge impression.

[Tommy Williamsen]

For me it was Riviera. I was about 25 and thought I had played good courses. It was my first top 100 course and showed me what real golf architecture was about. I have played that course many times now and it is as special as the first time I played it.

[Jim Moeller]

Tom - thanks for sharing. HT was only two years old in 1971, so it was a new course. But where was it in Pete's catalog? It must have been towards the beginning of his career. Would you have considered him a "modern architect" at the time?


Tommy - I hope Cape Arundel remains special to me that way that Riviera remains special for you.

[JMEvensky]

Winged Foot-West 35(?) years ago. It looked like a lot of courses I'd played but somehow all the familiar parts added up differently. WF-W was the first time I realized how fascinating the actual design of a golf course could be--the choices made regarding bunker placement, green contouring, etc.


It was a whole new way of looking at golf courses.

[Kyle Harris]

Huntingdon Valley Country Club: 7th Hole, 2nd shot.


1999


Away Varsity golf match


First time I had ever had a shot where I understood that it wasn't simply find the distance and pick a club. The course, as usual, was incredibly firm and fast and I had spent 6 holes adapting to that slowly. I realized I was aiming first, then determining trajectory, and then bounce.


Then I made a club selection.


The distance never entered into it.

[Peter Pallotta]

I've thought about this before, and again now. Like Jim (welcome) I took up the game late. Unlike Jim I can't think of a course I've yet played that opened my eyes/had me seeing what architecture is and could be in a new way. I've played plenty of average courses, some good ones, and a couple of very good/exceptional ones -- but they've all 'worked' in basically the same way, and within the same (fairly narrow) set of parametres, playing-wise at least. [There have been more marked differences in aesthetics, maintenance and settings.] Sometimes I find myself thinking that there are only two types of golf courses & experiences in the world, ie links and non-links, the original Scottish seasides and everything else -- and that my architectural epiphany will only come if/when I get there myself.
 

[Ira Fishman]

For me, it was our first trip to Pine Needles and Mid Pines probably a dozen years or so ago.  The green sites/complexes at PN did the trick.  I had played several well-regarded courses over the years, but this was the first time I really thought independently (in a couple senses of that word) about the architecture.  The interest in golf course architecture was cemented on my first trip to Ireland in 2013.


Ira

[Jeff_Brauer]

Guess I can't say I knew it was different, but it made me want to be a golfer and golf course architect - Medinah.


As for adult experiences, one course that struck me as "I just gotta get out there and play" was Crystal Downs, just looking down no. 1 fw from the clubhouse.  Thanks TD for hosting me! 


I think Royal County Down was another in similar capacity that I knew would be a special experience.


In the states, as a 20 something gca apprentice having seen some good courses, Shoreacres struck me as really different - my first Raynor! Luckily, the super met us after the round and sort of explained the historic template holes.

[jeffwarne]

I grew up in Augusta so I wont count ANGC.


Long Cove where I went to work at age 25 taught me a lot about architecture-playing in the wind, runups, importance of position-undulatimg greens-angles mattered to some degree-but being the 1980's and on Hilton Head- the value of keeping it in play may have been greater than angles

[Thomas Dai]

Saunton (East), circa 1973
Atb

[Kalen Braley]

For me it was driving thru Oregon and not having the time or money to play.  I Stopped at Bandon which at the time only had BD and PD.  Still distinctly recall the course revealing itself as i walked in behind PD 18 green and 1 tee at the temp clubhouse.  It was just mesmerizing, had never seen anything like that before in person.

[Scott Szabo]

For me, it was Sand Hills in 2005. 

[John Emerson]

I’ve played golf since I was 12/13 and of course grew up playing on a muni in Louisville.  Played some courses i thought were “good” in between that age and the age of 22-23ish.  Then during the summer of my sophomore year, one buddy was an intern at Idle Hour cc in Lexington, KY and another one was at Mid Pines.  I got to play both several times and knew immediately that these places were different and unique.  Couldn’t put my finger on why but I felt it, and can remember exactly how I felt. 


Then I took a trip earlier this year to Scotland and played The Who’s who courses and nothing is the same. Nothing compares! Like another said above, there’s links golf and everything else.

[Pete_Pittock]

Growing up in Oregon there was nothing better than a Doak 5 and there were only a couple of accessible courses by Macan or Egan.


Harbor Town, then Pinehurst #2, then Prestwick, then North Berwick's West links in the spring of 1975 over about a 10 day period.
Although I had played Pebble Beach in 1969, familiarity via watching the clambake dampened exposure.

[Sean_A]

I grew up on a very good Ross so the idea of excellent greens and good use of terrain came to me as a teenager circa 1978.  However, a whole new world opened up when I played my first links in 1991...Troon.  I couldn't get my head around all the activity after the ball landed.  It was also when I realized how much I relied upon typical US maintenance practice to control my ball for me.  Despite the far more interesting greens back home, it seemed like a much kinder, gentler game than in Scotland. 

Happy Hockey

[Tom_Doak]

For me, it was Sand Hills in 2005.

I am curious how you wound up going all the way out to Sand Hills without knowing what to expect.

[Peter Pallotta]

...I played my first links in 1991...Troon.  I couldn't get my head around all the activity after the ball landed.  It was also when I realized how much I relied upon typical US maintenance practice to control my ball for me.  Despite the far more interesting greens back home, it seemed like a much kinder, gentler game than in Scotland. 
Happy Hockey

Yes, even from afar it seems that way to me -- with some of the rugged Irish links you profile scaring me to death. I mean, if I ever played real links golf at Troon etc, I'd have to channel my most mystical-Golf in the Kingdom side and hold onto it for dear life, so as not not get demoralized by the terrible scores I'd shoot, especially in the wind. Like a modern day (and male version) of Blanche Dubois relying on the kindness of strangers, I think I've relied on typical southern Ontario & non-links maintenance practices to convince me that I've become a slightly better than average golfer.
And that's partly what I meant about not yet having my epiphany -- poor courses, average ones, good ones, even very good ones: to me, they just all seem to 'play' a whole lot more alike than they do differently, the varying quality of 'design' not enough to offset what is a fairly narrow bandwidth of architectural ideas/concepts and the maintenance that goes with that.
And then there is, I'm told, links golf.
Even in his sequel, there must be a reason why Michael Murphy didn't feel compelled to search for Shivas Irons at Pine Valley, or in Georgia, or even on Long Island. Yes, our hero does end up at Pebble Beach, which does say something.

   

[Jason Topp]

Mine was much more modest. 


I originally played on courses that were essentially converted Iowa cornfields with one or two bunkers and scraggly trees planted single file along each fairway. 


I moved to Des Moines at age 12 and stood on the first tee staring at a hill I wanted to get over, giant trees and a pond that I might want to play around but thought I could carry.  I immediately knew this would be a more interesting experience.


My tastes have evolved but I have been interested in the difference between a good golf course and an ordinary one ever since. 

[Sean_A]

Pietro

It wouldn't take many links games before you would come to some sort of grip as to coping.  The one aspect of links I never cared for was strong wind and strong for me is anything over 15mph. It took me about 5 years to realize my issue was as much about the effective width of links as it was about wind. It is interesting that generally, classic links are even narrower today while newish build links are much wider. Probably some of that stark difference in presentation is due the resort VS member owned models. But even private courses which rely heavily on visitor income are not amending their approach in terms of width. This is especially surprising for the famous public courses such as St Andrews, North Berwick and Carnoustie. I think this lack of common sense is directly related to championship golf snobbery.

Happy Hockey

[archie_struthers]

 


Of course you would know for me it was Pine Valley. Growing up ten minutes away and after driving thru downtown Clementon I just was never prepared to see what was behind the gates, no matter what I had heard before walking in past the gates.

• Still remember Billy Cappozoli laughing as I just couldn't imagine hole after hole being so good. Again the scale of the "Valley" was mind blowing.
• Since then been to a few that stirred the soul but that was the first 

[Lou_Duran]

OSU- Scarlet, circa 1971.  Still makes it hard to get excited about many of the courses lauded on this site.

[Ronald Montesano]

Three parts to this harmony.
Part one: first course ever was Grover Cleveland. Sneaked on as a kid, all the time. Some of the greens were smallish, low slung affairs, while others were elevated, bunkered, undulating. I knew something was up, but couldn't tell you what. Years later, research revealed it was the CCBuffalo course in 1912, when the US Open was contested there, albeit in an abbreviated version.


Part two: after evolving to Audubon golf course (a shit municipal near Grover) played my first varsity match at Park Club in Williamsville. First private club, first sense that golf was bigger and deeper than what I knew. Whetted my appetite for more.


Par three: after I had discovered this dboard (not yet a card-carrying member) I went with our varsity to Fox Chapel. Saw the names of the holes, the name of the designer, and connected the dots. I began to understand why each hole was the way it was, and what its value was to the entirety of the course.


I continue to see golf courses as a collection of short stories; I have yet to evolve to the type of golfer who sees a course as a novel or a dramatic play. This is fine by me.

[Pat Burke]

I grew up on Deal GC in New jersey.  With my da being a PGA guy, I was able to play a lot of unreal golf courses, including Hollywood, right next door.  I was young and I guess spoiled, in that I loved these courses, but it was "normal" for me to be playing good to great golf courses.
When I was 17, I played the Plainfield Junior tournament.  I remember realizing on about the 3rd hole there was something different there.  Not knowing the course, I left myself in some unreal difficult spots, that looked reasonable from the approach distances.  The place beat me to death, but I realized as a player how much more I needed to know the course and greens complexes.


The second was when I moved to California and qualified for the State Am at Pebble and CPC.  As a New JErsey guy, this was just another world.  CPC immediately was my favorite course as I played my first round there.  Walking from 14 to 15 and then to 16, still gets me excited, and I just felt i was in a special place


The last time I felt it was my first practice round at The Old Course prior to the '95 Open.
I was literally the ONLY player on the course that day, and there were no flagsticks.  I played with the guidance of my local caddy, and it was just a spiritual day

[Peter Pallotta]

Always, always enjoy your stories and insights, Pat.
And when I read the last lines of your post, I was struck by what an absolute joy it must be to play the game at that level, i.e. to control your ball so well that a round of golf at St Andrews is all about *you and the course* -- purely, simply and fundamentally.
I can't imagine Old Tom Morris could've ever wanted more for The Old Course than for it to be enjoyed by such a golfer.
Peter