[Ira Fishman]

Having finally gotten past my cheapskate self to buy the Confidential Guide, I was surprised to see Waterville listed as the second most difficult course in the UK and Ireland.  Both times I played it the conditions were relatively benign, but I did not find it particularly hard even for my mediocre game.


Thoughts?


Ira

[jeffwarne]

Waterville was my first course I ever played overseas 30 odd years ago.(played it 15-20 times in a month long stay with a  Waterville resident)
It was incrediblly long at the time especially with wooden clubs and balata.
I remember looking back at the blue tees and wondering who in the world would ever play them as the white tees were quite long as well-and I was in my 20's.Additionally, at that time, many of the fairways were meadow grass inhibiting roll.
I've played it since the renovation and I felt it has more variety of tees and playability now.


Being a modern(post 1960) course built with big boy length but before the adoption of multiple user friendly tee options(blues-7000, whites about 6700? and reds) , perhaps TD (and the authors) felt it played longer/harder than most older UK courses built many years ago that are considerably shorter or moderns such as Castle Stuart or Kingsbarns built with many tees and more user friendly.


Waterville is one of my guilty pleasures, despite having only been back once(2012) since multiple visits in the 90's.

[Ira Fishman]

Jeff,


I did not factor in that I played more recently from friendlier tees.  I think Waterville gets a bit of bum rap on this board, especially the opening holes which I think are at least as good as Ballybunion's.  And the finishing holes are terrific.  Lahinch is my favorite in Ireland (and the world so far), but Waterville is high on the list.


Ira

[Tom_Doak]

As Jeff says, Waterville's place in that list is a holdover from 20+ years ago, when the management emphasized the difficulty of the course over other factors like charm.  I can still remember standing on the top tee on 17 with a 40mph wind in my face, wondering where the hell to try and play my tee shot.


I haven't played it since the Fazio work, and don't know how much that changed the character of the place, but none of my co authors objected to that placement.

[Ira Fishman]

As Jeff says, Waterville's place in that list is a holdover from 20+ years ago, when the management emphasized the difficulty of the course over other factors like charm.  I can still remember standing on the top tee on 17 with a 40mph wind in my face, wondering where the hell to try and play my tee shot.


I haven't played it since the Fazio work, and don't know how much that changed the character of the place, but none of my co authors objected to that placement.

The only real break from fairly benign occurred on Number 17 on my second play when a sudden squall blew in. Indeed a daunting shot even from friendly tees.


Number One is only fine, but 2-5 are quite good even if 2 and 3 a bit flat.  I did not play it pre-Fazio so cannot comment on how much he changed those holes.


Ira

[Ben Hollerbach]

In my one playing of Waterville I felt it was a difficult course that a good and smart player could get around quite successfully. But that also mean the average player will inevitably find themselves in a sticky situation where they make a very bad decision.

During my round the wind was coming from the South, such that while playing the 18th, the wind was coming from ~2:30. With the 1st and 2nd playing almost straight down wind the course did not seem difficult and it was around the 4th or 5th that our caddies told us that the wind direction was opposite of normal. What I appreciated is that the course was well protected for both the typical and atypical wind. The fairways are more generous that many Irish links, which may make the course feel not overly difficult, but it still seemed fairway position was key. Also, playing 16, 17, & 18 with the wind howling off of the right and having to play your tee shot over the water is a pretty scary and difficult proposition, which may have tinted my impressions.

[jeffwarne]

Ben-try playing those three holes (or any holes) with the wind howling off the left!
Virtually guaranteed to hit it in the shite on 18 in a wind like that

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