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THuckaby2

Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2003, 11:08:27 AM »
FBD:

Interesting how there seems to be little middle ground re Muirfield... Man, I had TQ to the max there - precisely BECAUSE it wasn't the same as the other classic links I've played over there, with different sights, smells, turf...

But then again, I didn't tred on any dog turds.  Not that I know of anyway...  ;)

TH
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Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2003, 11:13:57 AM »
Huck's right about no middle ground about Muirfield.  I recall one poster saying elsewhere that the course gives about the best education in bunker placement anywhere, and that the par 5s are about the best set in the world, although he didn't say much about its playability for regular golfers.   ;D ;D  Others note that the routing is ingenious - a little circle inside a big one, so the wind is different on almost every hole.  Specifically, to one who has never been there, are these comments accurate?

Jeff Goldman
« Last Edit: October 30, 2003, 11:19:01 AM by Jeff Goldman »
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That was one hellacious beaver.

THuckaby2

Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2003, 11:17:35 AM »
Jeff - I find those comments to be very accurate, but don't expect the same agreement from others here!

One thing I would say is that Muirfield is not the most "playable" course in the world for average golfers.  Brian is right - the carry off the first tee alone will put the fear of god in them, and it is usually into the wind....

Outside of that, though, it's not like it's awful... there's very little of a penal nature to it... and the rough is generally high, but it's also VERY far off the fairway... there's typically a lor of room for "first cut" before you get to the really high hay.

It obviously isn't everyone's cup of tea.  

TH
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Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2003, 11:19:00 AM »
Jeff,

Yes correct on all accounts.  The routing is brilliant.  Colt is a genius.

Bunker placement excellent.

Playability for regular golfers...no way...

Brian
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2003, 11:20:38 AM »
It's not me who said it - I've never been there.  I forgot to add the smileys.
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That was one hellacious beaver.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2003, 11:26:00 AM »
I just keep looking at that picture on the CP thread (despite the one of Huck) and my TQ shoots thru the roof. I'm also thinking how could anyone think that Muirfield even comes close to that! They would have to drag me away from CP in a straitjacket......
Anyone know how much a membership is.... :P

Martin.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

THuckaby2

Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2003, 11:29:32 AM »
FBD:

Come on, admit it, the picture of me in in that thread is what MAKES CPC...  ;D

I guess TQ is in the eyes of the beholder.  Hell yes it's off the charts at CPC, as much as pictures of me ruin it... But I found it also at Muirfield, just in a very different way - it was HISTORY and pure golf challenge that gave the tingling there...

Then again I tend to find a high TQ at a lot of places, so perhaps I ought to stay the hell out of this.   ;)

TH
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2003, 11:41:02 AM »
Tom,
Agreed a zillion percent. It is the TQ that gives a place an edge over a similar location. And your point re how that TQ might occur is really valid. It doesn't have to be just the course, the golf, the weather, the company, the cigars, the whisky, the caddies, the hotel, the food....
but mixed in the right quantity, they create the COCKTAIL!
and it is surely that which, to use a good old landscape design term, is the 'Genius Loci'.
Think back maybe four or five years to a round you enjoyed. WHAT EXACTLY do you remember about it?

Martin.

PS I like your Shades, Dude.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2003, 11:43:02 AM »
Outside of that, though, it's not like it's awful... there's very little of a penal nature to it... and the rough is generally high, but it's also VERY far off the fairway... there's typically a lor of room for "first cut" before you get to the really high hay.

It obviously isn't everyone's cup of tea.  

TH

Thomas,

Very little of penal nature about it......wow, my John Deere lawn tractor wouldn't have made a dent in it. Yes, the routing does box the compass which is a magnificent theme, but anyone claiming this as the No.1 in the world, must be under the influence of an illegal substance.
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THuckaby2

Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2003, 11:58:36 AM »
Martin:

The shades are too cool for words, aren't they?
But that five year test is a good one... re Muirfield, my recolleciton from my first playing (which was 1987, but what the hell) was THIS COURSE IS DAMN HARD!  But besides that, it's funny but what I remember is more the nice treatment we had there, flying in the face of all the stories of others being treated poorly.

Bob:

OK, sure, it could use with a good John Deere effort.  But at least the high hay isn't as close in as say, Carnoustie (when they keep it that way)... There is room to miss, for the most part.  But I do concur that this isn't a course for the faint of heart.  And yes, it's not #1 in the world.  But I can see putting it easily in the top 20, and maybe even top 10... which is pretty damn good.

TH
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Patrick_Mucci

Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2003, 12:00:08 PM »
Mike Hendren,

I agree with you on SC.

It seems to me, that in the large population centers, there are a great number of golf courses, and that no one golf course gets an excess of hype.

When you go a little further afield, where there aren't that many golf courses, the local or regional tendency seems to be to hype the better course in that area.

And then, when you actually play it, you're disappointed.

I suppose, if people come from a 150 mile radius to play SC they might be prone to hype it.

And then, when you consider the cluster of good golf courses within a short distance of one another, such as.

Maidstone
Easthampton
Atlantic
The Bridge
NGLA
Shinnecock
Friar's Head
Laurel Links
Westhampton

I don't think, if you play one of these courses, that you get the same excessive hype, relative to the other courses in the area.

I felt the same way about Pumpkin Ridge, a good golf course, but I'm not so sure it's deserving of all the hype it receives.

I guess it's a matter of immediate comparison, or lack thereof.
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S_Salme

Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2003, 01:06:43 PM »
Muirfield has very few tough forced carries and the fairways aren't particularly narrow.  The green complexes are perfectly in scale with the property.  Comparing the course, in terms of penality, to Pine Valley is nuts.

The comparison between the Kingsbarns greens an the Himilayas putting green is weak.  Having a very wild green beyond a stream on a long 4 like the 18th at Kingsbarns is nothing like a fun practice putting green!  

Grannies can't cope with that.

Chop the hay back a little bit at Muirfield and in fact you have the perfect course for all golfers.  Much like The Old Course.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2003, 01:07:17 PM by S_Salme »
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Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2003, 01:38:28 PM »
Quote from: S_Salme on October 30, 2003, 01:06:43 PM
The comparison between the Kingsbarns greens an the Himilayas putting green is weak.  Having a very wild green beyond a stream on a long 4 like the 18th at Kingsbarns is nothing like a fun practice putting green!  

Grannies can't cope with that.

.
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Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2003, 01:42:44 PM »
S.Salme,

Dammit, I'll get that quote thingy organised soon.

I meant to add, that I'll put a ball down twenty-five feet from any pin at Kingsbarns or The Himalyas and I'll give you ten to one odds that you will take more putts at the latter.
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Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2003, 02:08:28 PM »
Salme,

You still haven't answered my question...have you played any of the courses you keep quoting.

To a granny it doesn't matter that it is a long Par 4...they don't care about score they just want to have fun...and not lose any balls.

The 18th green at Kingsbarns is a good finishing (arse twitching green) but still fun.

'Muirfield has very few tough forced carries and the fairways aren't particularly narrow.'

You either played Muirfield on a none windy day, or you are a very good golfer or you have never been there.

Hole 1 170 yards forced carry
Hole 2 150 yards forced carry
Hole 3 150 yards forced carry
Hole 4 Par 3 140 forced carry
Hole 5 Nearly 200 yards forced carry
Hole 6 100 yards forced carry
Hole 7 140 yards forced carry
Hole 8 100 yards forced carry
hole 9 200 yards forced carry..

do I need to carry on?

All yardages are estimates taken from the strokesaver..all carries are over the rough the greenkeeper likes to cut and leave the clippings in place just to make it even thicker next year...

If the fairways are not narrow in your opinion then I would hate to see a links course that is classed as narrow in your world.

'Chop the hay back a little bit at Muirfield and in fact you have the perfect course for all golfers.  Much like The Old Course. '

Now you are just taking the piss...chop the hay back and i agree you are getting close to a very good course for all golfers but to even compare it to TOC is a joke..i presume you have played TOC?

Sorry, I just can't agree with you but no hard feelings.. ;D

Brian
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

S_Salme

Re:Let-Down Links
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2003, 04:29:37 PM »
Don't patronize scottish grannies, they like to keep score too.

What granny is going to play from the championship tee carries that you quote?  That's ridiculous.   Some of your estimates are way off (1,2,3,5,) and the rough is not nearly as thick in front of the tees, when compared with the flanks.  It gets trampled down.  Tons of courses have par 3s with carries of 100 yds+ and over more penal hazards than rough.

Do you actually like The Old Course, or is that a bit too subtle also?  

Criticizing a course for having too thick rough is obvious and banal too.  

Criticize the design, if you can.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2003, 04:40:15 PM by S_Salme »
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