Feature Interview with Johnson Wagner is posted

[Ran Morrissett]

https://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/feature-interview-with-johnson-wagner/

My brother plays at the same club as Johnson Wagner in Charlotte, and one day on the range struck up a conversation with him. He was stunned when Johnson mentioned that two of his all-time favorite courses are The Cal Club and Chicago GC. You expect that sort of an answer from people in this Discussion Group, so Wagner’s answer was intriguing. That was in the summer of 2018 and it ultimately led to this Feature Interview.
 
 I remember watching Wagner win in Hawaii in 2012. The design has just enough Raynor in it to make me tune in most years. Waialae has two 5 pars, but Wagner played the eight holes  9 under that week, which is pretty tidy! Certainly, the win did nothing to dampen his enthusiasm for Raynor and classic architecture in general and it is no surprise to learn that The Old White is now among his favorite Tour stops. As a 39 year old, you would certainly think that he would appreciate any edge that he could obtain when playing against the young PGA Tour bombers. That edge to me seems to be his appreciation of golf course architecture.
 
Wagner went to high school in Garrison, NY and played events at places like Piping Rock and The Creek. He also won the Met Open in 2001 (as an amateur) and 2002 at Bethpage Black and WFW, respectively. Not too shabby!  You can imagine his surprise/delight when he went to Chattanooga, Tennessee to play in a Nationwide event and viola, there was Black Creek with a slew of similar holes that he recognized from his New York days. Wagner clearly appreciates how fortunate he was to be exposed to world class architecture early on. That passion has led him to places like Pine Valley and the Cal Club and Chicago GC to further his education.
 
The last PGA Tour player that GolfClubAtlas interviewed was Zac Blair (January 2018). I don’t know about you but a kindred spirit in architecture is someone that I find super easy to root for. Such is the case with Charlotte resident Johnson Wagner – best wishes in this new season!

[jeffwarne]

Great stuff-look forward to the read.
There are more Tour players that enjoy classic GCA out there than you would think.
Certainly many more than there used to be and I'd say that's in no small part due to Ran and this website

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks, Ran - a very enjoyable read, and a brief one, i.e.  one of the real pleasures was that Johnson certainly doesn't beat around the bush or numb you to death with too many words: he gets right to the point/answers quickly and succinctly. I particularly liked his views on classic courses becoming obsolete: we've had dozens of threads and thousands of posts and millions of words on it, while he addresses it all in less than 10! "Firm fast conditions with tucked pins is plenty defence". Perfect.
Peter   

[Tony_Muldoon]

Good question re limiting the no of clubs.


From the answer it would seem the new players would just use the 60 degree even more if you took away some clubs, making such a limitation counterproductive.

[Mike Sweeney]

From the answer it would seem the new players would just use the 60 degree even more if you took away some clubs, making such a limitation counterproductive.

A simple rule could be the "48 Degree Rule", where you could not carry any clubs outside of this "spread range".


Thus, if you want a 8 degree driver in your bag, you max out at a 56 degree wedge. If you want the 60 degree wedge, you have to carry a 12 degree driver.


The equipment companies might even go for it as you would arguably need 2 different drivers depending on which course you play that day.


48 was a random number that seemed to historically fit before we had 8 degree drivers as almost standard, and Phil carrying 64 degree wedges. It could obviously be 47, 46, 45...

[Sean_A]

From the answer it would seem the new players would just use the 60 degree even more if you took away some clubs, making such a limitation counterproductive.

A simple rule could be the "48 Degree Rule", where you could not carry any clubs outside of this "spread range".

Thus, if you want a 8 degree driver in your bag, you max out at a 56 degree wedge. If you want the 60 degree wedge, you have to carry a 12 degree driver.

The equipment companies might even go for it as you would arguably need 2 different drivers depending on which course you play that day.

48 was a random number that seemed to historically fit before we had 8 degree drivers as almost standard, and Phil carrying 64 degree wedges. It could obviously be 47, 46, 45...

I like the eye of a sliding spread range.  Although I would take it much further....48 degree is far too much of a spread.  33 degree spread using 8 clubs is plenty for pros. If you want to stick a cannon in the bag you can only go as high as 41 degrees.  I am basically cutting in half the number of tools and the loft of those tools. 

Happy Hockey

[jeffwarne]

Limiting the # of clubs is a cool idea that makes for fun golf (doesn't really address what changed in elite golf...but I digress)
But it would have minimal effect on a PGA Tour player (bomber) who would still carry a 60 degree wedge, a 55 or 56 and 48 and use those for nearly every par 4 approach.
Maybe you get a gap # for par 5 second shots but for par 3's they would simply use the clubs needed for the daily setup


Driver, driving iron 4.5 iron, 6 iron , 7.5 iron, 8.75 iron, PW(48), SW(55) LW, putter
and I struggle to imagine how much his scores would change-esp with a custom set of half lofts to throw in for daily setup

[Tony_Muldoon]

The idea of limiting the no of clubs is beautiful in its simplicity, but apparently limited in its effectiveness.




Once you also involve a limited 'spread range' who tests a set conforms?  Not so attractive not least because the former harks back to 'real' golf and the later means a tour player will need a scientist and a lawyer on his team!

[Ira Fishman]

My wife is playing in a tournament as we "speak" where she had to select only four clubs.  I bet she is having a blast.


Good interview.  I do not know any touring pros so this is pure speculation, but I bet a lot more of them than we give credit appreciate and have an interest in architecture.


Ira

[Philip Hensley]

My wife is playing in a tournament as we "speak" where she had to select only four clubs.  I bet she is having a blast.


Good interview.  I do not know any touring pros so this is pure speculation, but I bet a lot more of them than we give credit appreciate and have an interest in architecture.


Ira

There is a 5-club hickory tournament every December at Pine Needles, and every year approximately 25% of the field shoots their best ever hickory score on that course with just 5 clubs.

[Sean_A]

0

Limiting the # of clubs is a cool idea that makes for fun golf (doesn't really address what changed in elite golf...but I digress)
But it would have minimal effect on a PGA Tour player (bomber) who would still carry a 60 degree wedge, a 55 or 56 and 48 and use those for nearly every par 4 approach.
Maybe you get a gap # for par 5 second shots but for par 3's they would simply use the clubs needed for the daily setup


Driver, driving iron 4.5 iron, 6 iron , 7.5 iron, 8.75 iron, PW(48), SW(55) LW, putter
and I struggle to imagine how much his scores would change-esp with a custom set of half lofts to throw in for daily setup

A 60 wedge means the lowest loft is 27! I think it would be fascinating to see the range for any given course. I am convinced scores would still be good, but earned in a more entertaining manner.

Happy Hockey

[Ira Fishman]

My wife is playing in a tournament as we "speak" where she had to select only four clubs.  I bet she is having a blast.


Good interview.  I do not know any touring pros so this is pure speculation, but I bet a lot more of them than we give credit appreciate and have an interest in architecture.


Ira

There is a 5-club hickory tournament every December at Pine Needles, and every year approximately 25% of the field shoots their best ever hickory score on that course with just 5 clubs.

My wife reports that except for a poor shot into the water, she played as well as or perhaps even better with the four clubs.  She chose Driver, 7 Wood, 7 iron, and putter.  I think I would go Driver, 19 degree hybrid, 7 iron, and SW.  My putting stinks anyway and I putt pretty well with the lead edge of the wedge.


Ira

[David_Tepper]

One of the chapters in Herbert Warren Wind's book Following Through is his article ("Europe in the Fall") that reports on a 7-club professional tournament held at Turnberry in 1964. You can read it online here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=uhUoCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT51&lpg=PT51&dq=herbert+warren+wind+british+7-club+golf+tournament+at+turnberry&source=bl&ots=UltkHeN07k&sig=ACfU3U35pryvj9RSd2MBpTyDp9ySkYJGKg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj4lbCLkJLlAhUjNX0KHeerAEEQ6AEwDHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=herbert%20warren%20wind%20british%207-club%20golf%20tournament%20at%20turnberry&f=false

[Mike Sweeney]

Not so attractive not least because the former harks back to 'real' golf and the later means a tour player will need a scientist and a lawyer on his team!

Tony,


At the risk of alienating about 30% of GCA.com members who either are or seem to be lawyers  , the USGA lawyers started us down this path when they were afraid of the PING lawsuit. The Masters and Augusta National have all the money, clout, agronomist, lawyers, and access to science to fix the distance issue at the tour level, but....

[Tom_Doak]

The govening bodies and the manufacturers are too cozy now - like politicians and defense contractors.


At a gathering in St Andrews ten years ago, a bunch of us architects got to ask questions to the R&A's equipment regulator.  Tom Mackenzie asked what about limiting the pros to seven clubs, and the response was, "I don't think our friends in the equipment industry would want us to cut their output in half."  So who is regulating whom?

[Sean_A]

The pros get free equipment anyway. The ones who pay would buy far more than 14 clubs.

Happy Hockey

[Ira Fishman]

As a reformed lawyer and once upon a time government official, I think that Tom is correct on the major issue.  Regulatory capture is a very real thing in any industry.  Even on the roll the ball back or limit Driver performance, I suspect what really drives the opposition is that the manufacturers need new and improved to sell more clubs and raise the prices for clubs and balls. 


Ira

[jeffwarne]

Not so attractive not least because the former harks back to 'real' golf and the later means a tour player will need a scientist and a lawyer on his team!

  the USGA lawyers started us down this path when they were afraid of the PING lawsuit. The Masters and Augusta National have all the money, clout, agronomist, lawyers, and access to science to fix the distance issue at the tour level, but....

+1

[PCCraig]

I enjoyed the interview. Thanks for posting, Ran.

[Tommy Williamsen]

You're right Ran, this interview makes it easy to root for him. Nice interview.

[Duncan Cheslett]

I had a very interesting chat yesterday with Cavendish’s own young tour pro, George Bloor.


Discussing our favourite courses, it was clear that our tastes were largely similar, and that George has a great feel for architecture and history.


When talking about the way he plays these courses however, it was clear that we inhabit completely different universes.


George told me that he never needs to play more than a wedge into a par 4. I thought he was talking about Cavendish but no - he meant ANYWHERE!


“So what do you need all those long irons for?” I asked.


“For off the tee if I’m playing for position - I might take a 5 iron if I want to hit it 230 on a 370 yard hole leaving an easy wedge in.


These guys could manage perfectly well with a driver, 5 iron, four wedges and a putter!

[David_Tepper]

"These guys could manage perfectly well with a driver, 5 iron, four wedges and a putter!"

Duncan-

That could work, except for all the par-3's between 150 and 230 yards.

DT

[herrstein]

Well, that sure was a nice and unexpected mention for Black Creek. It's been almost 20 years now since we built our course and it feels good to have someone say it inspired them. Thanks for posting, Ran.