Muirfield Village renovation

[Matt_Cohn]

Any more info?


https://www.golf.com/top-one-hundred/courses/2019/09/25/muirfield-village-to-undergo-significant-renovation/

[Anthony_Nysse]

Any more info?


https://www.golf.com/top-one-hundred/courses/2019/09/25/muirfield-village-to-undergo-significant-renovation/

Rosaforte reported on twitter that new tees would be added on #8, #11 & #15 for 2020 with greens being ready for 2021.

[Jeff_Brauer]

One of the more enjoyable days in my life occurred at the ASGCA Columbus meeting in 2004.  Due to a broken finger (account of a overzealous carpet cleaning attempt, don't ask) I couldn't play golf at that meeting.  That was the one where the Golf Digest design winner got to play a round with Jack at MV.  I rode around in a cart with Jay Morrish, who pointed out many construction details and memories I would have never known.


Jack did stop at each tee to discuss the then current rounds of renovations, including removing the long strip bunker left of 17, which I always liked.  He said the first 100 yards never came into play, so he re-arranged a different bunker at the LZ.  Most of his changes were more scientific than artsy as a basic approach.  As someone commented, he had a specific reason (well articulated) for every change made.  Interesting to note they seem to be following the ANGC mode of making changes based on what is needed for their annual tournament, which does make sense.  (Who here would keep the original design in the name of preserving the architects original intent? LOL.


BTW, was also a memorable day in that I had lunch with Tom MacWood, well known here back in the day.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Geoff Shackelford chimes in:




https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2019/9/25/jack-nicklaus-to-renovate-his-muirfield-village-design-again

[Steve_ Shaffer]

JN provides more details,,,




https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2019/10/1/nicklaus-outlines-in-great-detail-his-final-overhaul-of-muirfield-village

[Michael Wolf]

Whose apple?

[MCirba]

Maybe they get enough unaccompanied outside play at about $600 a pop to alleviate the membership assessment?

[JESII]

While the constant renovation cycle these tournament venues put their members through is a huge negative to me, why does the cost matter?


After all, just today, a buddy told me about a $30,000,000 project getting ready to start at Cobbs Creek...

[Jeff Schley]

I really respect Jack Nicklaus as a golfer, man and designer.  I don't particularly prefer his courses over others, but respect his style.

“But my belief is that tournament golf should be a test to find out who is the best golfer that week. Far too many tournaments have eliminated the rough and firmness of greens, and that is just not my idea of what the game of golf should be. So I am going to stick with my old-fashioned beliefs about how the game of golf should be played and the way golf courses should be set up. How the USGA’s Joe Dey used to set up courses is how I learned and how I thought golf should be played. It’s the guy who drives the ball the straightest; the guy who plays the best iron game; the guy who is best around the greens and is sometimes challenged when he doesn’t play a good shot to the green; and the guy who putts well. The whole gamut of all shots is what the game of golf is all about. The game should challenge every facet of every club in the bag.”


He mentions firmness of greens and when the rain falls at the Memorial Tournament it plays like darts.  My question would be can the new greens with the sub-air system allow his greens to firm up to a point where pros would say those are firm greens?  My guess would be possibly, but seeing how much rain falls there around the tourney (variable I know), it is a challenge.  To have a goal of firm greens is worthy and would like to see more firm conditions consistently on the tour, although with the TPC courses that isn't a priority.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Maybe they get enough unaccompanied outside play at about $600 a pop to alleviate the membership assessment?

I would bet hosting 2-3 Memorial tournaments easily pay for the renovations costs. Its part of the reason these courses continue to tinker, adding amenities to the club. A LOT YEARLY CAPITAL.


As far as the new greens being firmer-Just by the greens being brand new & thatch free will provide a substantially firmer green regardless of how much rain for the first few years.

[jeffwarne]

I played Muirfield for the first time this past May.
It's strength IMHO is the par 5's-very strategic IMHO and full of interest.
In the abence of any rollback/bifurcation news, I can easily see why Jack would want to lengthen his par 5's to retain the original intent/strategy(during the event)-regardless of what the reason is for increased length on tour.No different than the event he modeled his event and club after (ANGC) which has done reasonably well over the years
I can also see the need to address green firmness being a Tour site,and with a host(Jack) seeking to identify the best player.
If I were him I would respond with selective length and firmness as well.


In other news, I had a pro told me his greens recently stimped at 16.7 (he gushed as he told me "his Super had video of it")
I played that former classic course a couple of years ago, after a length finding and green flattening renovation-found the greens incredibly boring-a shame as it was once a gem.


One day, if there are any golfers left, golfers will admit slower,firmer sloped/tilted greens using interesting pins are tougher(if that's the goal)--and clubs will spend a lot less maintaining and renovating green surfaces, with firmer, more sustainable, more interesting greens that might even be considered BEFORE one reaches them.

[Peter Pallotta]

Sad to say, at some point in the future JN's Muirfield will still be there, but JN's Memorial Tournament presented by Nationwide won't be -- or at least won't have the same prestige and maybe the same (ideal) place on the tour schedule. It happened to the 'Byron Nelson' and to the 'Arnold Palmer' too. So I suppose that if extensive changes were needed, it was best to make them now -- when (as Anthony points out) a high profile tournament more than pays for it all. 
In the meantime: he's won 20 majors, he's designed some 250 golf courses, and he owns the club -- so there's no doubt that JN can & should be allowed to do whatever he wants there, even if it's exactly what we've all come to expect (and some dread): even more length on the par 5s, even more technology to keep the course dry (or wet), and even faster greens.     

[Thomas Dai]

“But my belief is that tournament golf should be a test to find out who is the best golfer that week. Far too many tournaments have eliminated the rough and firmness of greens, and that is just not my idea of what the game of golf should be. So I am going to stick with my old-fashioned beliefs about how the game of golf should be played and the way golf courses should be set up. How the USGA’s Joe Dey used to set up courses is how I learned and how I thought golf should be played. It’s the guy who drives the ball the straightest; the guy who plays the best iron game; the guy who is best around the greens and is sometimes challenged when he doesn’t play a good shot to the green; and the guy who putts well. The whole gamut of all shots is what the game of golf is all about. The game should challenge every facet of every club in the bag.”

I hope this doesn't mean just thick rough close to and around the greens?
atb

[Tim Martin]

Sad to say, at some point in the future JN's Muirfield will still be there, but JN's Memorial Tournament presented by Nationwide won't be -- or at least won't have the same prestige and maybe the same (ideal) place on the tour schedule. It happened to the 'Byron Nelson' and to the 'Arnold Palmer' too. So I suppose that if extensive changes were needed, it was best to make them now -- when (as Anthony points out) a high profile tournament more than pays for it all. 
In the meantime: he's won 20 majors, he's designed some 250 golf courses, and he owns the club -- so there's no doubt that JN can & should be allowed to do whatever he wants there, even if it's exactly what we've all come to expect (and some dread): even more length on the par 5s, even more technology to keep the course dry (or wet), and even faster greens.     

Peter-I think you are correct about the fate of said tournaments. It’s a lot easier for players to pass on Bay Hill and the AT&T BNC now that the King and Lord Byron are gone. I believe the Memorial will suffer the same fate when Jack is departed.