Can you make the argument that every hole at Prairie Dunes...

[PCCraig]

Has the 5th always been listed as a par-4?


Perhaps because when we were there it played into a consistent heavy wind, it certainly never played like a 2-shot hole for me. From the back tees    it played like a 600 yard hole on Saturday morning.


Par aside, it is a terrific hole. Pretty wide off the tee, the hole is interesting as 2.5 shot hole, especially with the cross bunker ~100 yards short of the green. The green is terrific and the right pin we saw on Saturday was very fun...from the left you're scared of getting too greedy and going long, and from the right you're afraid of getting too cute and leaving your ball short.


I'm not sure it's the best hole on the course though...

[David Kelly]

I'm not sure it's the best hole on the course though...

Although I think its a very good hole, to me its the fifth best par 4 on the front nine. 


Its a pretty wide fairway but the fairway cants from left to right so when conditions are firm, which they usually are, you need to land your tee shot on the left side of the fairway or work the ball to the left to make sure you remain in the short grass.

[John Kirk]

Bump.
I'm disappointed this thread did not continue.  What's the problem?  Although it's a discussion group favorite, it isn't discussed in detail very often.  With the large number of recent guests, and a few club members in our group, it's a good time to rave about this great place.

[Bill Seitz]

A classic American big par 4.  And the second best two-shotter on the front nine. 

Reminds me a little of #5 at the Bev.  Not really gimmicky.  Just a long, fairly straight, hard par 4.  Different type of danger, but you pay for missing the fairway.


Also agree with Pat that it played like a par 5 for me all weekend, especially into that wind. 

[John Kavanaugh]

It’s hard not to admit that the tee shot on 6 isn’t the most fun on the course. The visual deception created by the fronting bunker combined with a false fronted green delivers as exciting a 105 yd wedge as you will find anywhere in the Midwest. Best hole on the course, maybe not. The hole you can’t wait to play again, maybe so.

[Terry Lavin]

“The hole you cant wait to play again.” Well said. That’s a great evaluation statement. And for me all but three at PD satisfy this simple test.


And that is a compliment to a great golf course. 

[Daryl David]

I’m playing Saturday and I’m confused. What is the one hole I should really look forward to. All of them?

[John Kavanaugh]

The one hole you should look forward to is 17. It has changed how I play every par 5 the rest of my life. I'll explain how when we get there.

[Jason Thurman]

6 is so sexy to me from the tee. But as John illustrates, the green is the real star.


I've never hit a particularly good drive on 7. Such a bummer. But when you're trying to punch with a match opponent who's on fire, that second shot is about as dramatic as it gets if it's from long range. Someday I hope to have an iron in. The gunch encroaches heavily on this one. But then, it maybe makes the hole better. I think.


For the joy it affords to great shots, and its spectacular use of gunch, I think we can safely say 7 is the best hole at Prairie Dunes.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

I love a par 5 that I actually have a chance to reach in two, and for that I get really excited teeing off on 7. At 480 from the whites I have a chance downwind. But I’ve found it’s best to land the approach about 10 yards short anyway as it usually runs on and you do not want to be long. Add in the framing of the dunes around the hole and I may be with you that 7 is my favorite

[Morgan Clawson]

The Sixth

[PCCraig]

The 6th is a terrific hole. The inside bunker tempts you to take on the dogleg, but it's really a draw off the outside bunker that works just as well, especially with the wind off the right. The green is outstanding and would be home at White Bear with it's wild internal contours.


I like the 7th but are the surrounds so penal is it ever worth going for it in two? I think one round I had less than 200 yards in and I hit a 7 iron lay up.

[Jason Thurman]

You can hit a >200 yard 7 iron? This is why you've won club championships...


Why is 8 world class? I mean, it's long and hard and has the best land movement of any hole this side of White Bear or Kingsley. Would Perry have been an idiot if he didn't find it? Or is part of his brilliance derived from being the man who built it?

[PCCraig]

Land movement, sure. But why is the 8th a good hole? I think it may be the worst hole on the course? Isn’t it what most GCA types dislike? It’s pure penal golf, no?


Jason,


Hell no, I can’t hit a 7 iron 200. Playing downwind and firm I could get that 7 iron to 30ish yards short of the green, which I figured you would take 90% of the time as opposed to taking the risk of catching the finch around the green.

[Jason Thurman]

I put the gator's mouth in the wrong direction.


But in seriousness, you point out something interesting, and another piece of why I think the gunch enhances 7 rather than detracting. It just isn't that hard to avoid if one plays that hole wisely, and yet, it's VERY in play if one doesn't. I assume your 7 iron yardage is 170+. And that's pretty damn close to 200 yards. But that 20-30 yard gap is all you need to give yourself a 50 yard wide target as opposed to a 10 yard wide target. The math is simple, but taking advantage of it requires discipline. The hole is very gettable. Even without hitting a good drive on it in my life, I've had three realistic chances to reach in two. But it's never been the wise choice. It takes serious patience to play a 480 yard hole as a three-shotter, especially when the other 17 holes make it feel like it might be your only birdie chance.

[Morgan Clawson]

The awesome 8th.

[Terry Lavin]

The awesome 8th.

. Sui generis.

[Tyler Kearns]

The 6th is a terrific hole. The inside bunker tempts you to take on the dogleg, but it's really a draw off the outside bunker that works just as well, especially with the wind off the right. The green is outstanding and would be home at White Bear with it's wild internal contours.


I like the 7th but are the surrounds so penal is it ever worth going for it in two? I think one round I had less than 200 yards in and I hit a 7 iron lay up.

Pat,


I was disappointed to see that a drive carrying the left hand bunker on the inside of the dogleg needed an additional few yards of carry to clear the gunsch, plus what laid beyond was maintained rough rather than fairway.  It seems like a good opportunity to expand the fairway and allow a drive that just clears the bunker to gain additional yardage off of the downslope.


Tyler

[Sean Leary]

Like many of the hikes at PD, the outside of the dogleg on the 6th gives you the best visibility of the green. 


My favorite hole, no question. 


7 is really a par 4 downwind (especially when firm) but it becomes a monster with the north wind. One of the few holes at PD where landing it short of the green is the preferred play.


The bunkers and native behind the green was put in about 10 years ago.  Really improves the visuals of the second shot.

[John Kavanaugh]

Anything more than a birdie on 7 is a miscue. The key to a successful second shot approach onto the green is to get the ball on the ground as soon as possible. This results in a miss finding the fronting bunkers which are both as simple as it gets on the course. The approach plays 15% less than advertised.


7 is a wonderful transition into the teeth of 8, 9, 10 and 11. Give yourself a treat and make birdie so that when you are teeing off 12 you are not trying to salvage your round.

[Bill Vogeney]

When was the back tee on #3 built?

IIRC back in the 80’s-Doug Peterson, the super at the time, hiked to the top of the dune and loved the view. He started to cut the tee. Before C&C’s Dave Axland, he has carte blanche to make changes.

[PCCraig]

The awesome 8th.

. Sui generis.

But why?

[Jason Thurman]

I gotta say... of every hole I’ve played that I’ve been sure is exceptional, 8 at Prairie Dunes might be the hardest to articulate.


The green is dramatic. The terrain perfectly heaving. It’s tough as nails. It’s beautiful and scary. But what makes it world-class? You aim your drive down the middle, and swing hard for the middle of the green on your approach. It’s golf on a grand scale without a hint of contrivance. Maybe that’s all there is to it?

[John Kavanaugh]

Jason,


You aim your driver to the left side of the fairway.

[JWinick]

It’s a great golf course - but it is not top 50 in the world - that’s crazy talk.   I found the par 3s to feature the same club on every hole, the power lines were an eyesore, and the finish was a bit of a let down.    I’m sure I’m in the minority though.