[Tom Huckaby]

Adam:

That makes sense to me, but I was asked to stand down.

 

But since you took a stab, it's only polite to reply - OK, Brad?

Please do keep in mind I never said the course was anything but great, nor have I ever denigrated it's architecture, design, or anything else; I continue to just have a hard time seeing it as my personal cup of tea, because relentless courses aren't what jazz me.  It remains odd to me that people keep trying to change my mind about what I like.

I hear your home course is challenging but anything but relentless... and I say that as a very high compliment.  Perhaps look at it this way and you may be the second to understand my take here (Chris Clouser being the one and only, and he got it via IM).

TH

[Ken Moum]

I continue to just have a hard time seeing it as my personal cup of tea, because relentless courses aren't what jazz me.  It remains odd to me that people keep trying to change my mind about what I like.

Perhaps look at it this way and you may be the second to understand my take here (Chris Clouser being the one and only, and he got it via IM).

TH

FWIW, I totally get your point.  

I spent four days at PD during the Women's Open, and couldn't get over the fact that it looked relentless in person. (Although the pictures in this thread seem to show much less shrubbery on the course than there was for the Women's open)

But the big thing I can't understand how someone could use relentless and fun in the same description of a course.

Unless they are complete masochists.

But then I don't understand how so many golfers i know have managed to get to where "good par four" means the same as "insanely hard par four."

Of course, at the moment, I can't think of a course I like better than Brora. Maybe what PD needs is a big herd of sheep.

LOL

K

[Tom Huckaby]

K:

THANK YOU!

That's it, absolutely.

TH

[Craig Van Egmond]

Tom,

          Its your self professed love of the Fort Ord Bayonet course that confuse me when regards to this stance. The Bayonet course can only be described as relentless bordering on brutal and has relatively few architectural merits. Some nice views though.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Ryan nice pictures and an attempt to clearly show your appreciation for the fun of PD.  Nevertheless an incomplete description of the place without pictures or comments on the lifeguards.

[Matt_Cohn]

Guys, don't all of these questions about "fun" revolve around a stroke-play mindset?

Wouldn't Prairie Dunes - or any other course, I suppose - be considered more fun at match play?

[rjsimper]

Matt, I think there are very few courses, if any, that would be more fun stroke play than match.

But, I do think that PD is an excellent match play course - and certainly when not at or near the top of your game match play would still be supremely fun.

Huck,
Just on a hunch, I searched the thread for the term "relentless" because I honestly didn't recall ever calling the course that - Ed Getka said "no let up" and I agreed with that to the extent that there is no true "breather" out there, but relentless is not the word I would use to describe Prairie Dunes - you, my friend, were the first to put that word in my mouth.  

[rjsimper]

And Lynn, I didn't run into any K-State coeds at the pool, but there were certainly a few lookers on the staff in the clubhouse and it's amazing (and perhaps frightening) how good 100 degrees of humidity can make a couple of otherwise average beverage cart attendants look.

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck,
Just on a hunch, I searched the thread for the term "relentless" because I honestly didn't recall ever calling the course that - Ed Getka said "no let up" and I agreed with that to the extent that there is no true "breather" out there, but relentless is not the word I would use to describe Prairie Dunes - you, my friend, were the first to put that word in my mouth.  

From reply # 25, Ryan Simper:

Ed - you are right, there really is no let up.  It's a tough course from start to finish and I really thought the only easy holes were 7 and 14...and 7 only due to the length (but hitting the narrow fairway is the challenge that hole presents...that, and staying patient)

In previous threads, the course was most definitely described as relentless.  

So yes, I suppose you never did use that exact word.  But I'll leave it to the jury as to whether you agreed with the assessment.  I believe it was a fair assumption on my part that you did.

But no matter, pick another word.  

I find a hard time calling "tons of fun" a course that has no let up and that others have called relentless.

Better?

 

[rjsimper]

So let's not get hung up on that word, shall we?

The same way you haven't gotten hung up on "tons of fun"?

 

[Tom Huckaby]

All you had to do was back off from that a week ago - or alternatively, just accept that I might look at golf courses differently than you do - and none of this would have occurred.

I continue to find it hard to believe that that golf course, as described by so many, can be tons of fun.

So yes I am hung up on that phrase... the one you chose to describe the golf course.

But if it makes you feel better, how's this:

I believe - and always have believed - that it was and is and will be tons of fun for you.

I just can't see it being such for me.

Why isn't that enough?

TH

ps Brad - I tried to step down... but when asked questions, isn't it polite to answer?

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,

          Its your self professed love of the Fort Ord Bayonet course that confuse me when regards to this stance. The Bayonet course can only be described as relentless bordering on brutal and has relatively few architectural merits. Some nice views though.

I was wondering if you or someone else would ask about that.

And there is an explanation:  I loved (note past tense) the old Bayonet course simply because it was the ultimate test of brutal penal awfully hard golf.  It's was so over the top difficult that it was absolutely unique in this regard.  The old phrase was "think you're good?  Go play Bayonet."  So love it I did... and cry for it's demise I still do.

Just note that nowhere in there did I ever, have I ever, would I ever say it was FUN.

Fun and that course were as opposite as me and willing to give in on this thread.  

I did love the course though - conquering that, even for a few holes, was one hell of an accomplishment.  But it doled out punishment gleefully and plentifully, with accomplisments occurring only very very rarely.

So only someone truly masochistic would have ever called that course fun.  I sure as hell never did.

TH

[rjsimper]

Because you're wrong....and you haven't played the course.  

You're a good enough (and accurate enough) player to not have to worry about a lot of the things that people who REALLY find the course to be punishing have to worry about.

If you amend to:

"Based on having seen only pictures and not having played the course, I can't see it as being tons of fun for me, but it's certainly possible that if I played it I could change my mind"

Then I'd slap you on the back and give you an "ATTA BOY"

[Tom Huckaby]

Because you're wrong....and you haven't played the course.  

You're a good enough (and accurate enough) player to not have to worry about a lot of the things that people who REALLY find the course to be punishing have to worry about.

If you amend to:

Based on having seen only pictures and not having played the course, I can't see it as being tons of fun for me, but it's certainly possible that if I played it I could change my mind"

Then I'd slap you on the back and give you an "ATTA BOY"

Can't say that, it wouldn't be honest, because that's not the extent of my assessment.

How about this:

Based upon seeing many many pictures of the course from all angles, and watching it for hours on TV, and reading the assessments of many golfers whose opinions I do trust, I can't see it being tons of fun for me, but it certainly is possible that if I did play it I could change my mind.  I'm just never going to play it, so that's a rather moot point.

Do I get a slap or an attaboy?

Didn't think so.

Ryan, I think where you've gone wrong is you assume way too much about both my game and my personal preferences.  It's kinda odd that you can call me wrong about an opinion based on such.  Call me wrong about what the golf course holds, fine.  But I'm wrong about my own likes and dislikes?  I never knew you knew me that well.

 

[rjsimper]

Can't say that, it wouldn't be honest, because that's not the extent of my assessment.

How about this:

Based upon seeing many many pictures of the course from all angles, and watching it for hours on TV, and reading the assessments of many golfers whose opinions I do trust, I can't see it being tons of fun for me, but it certainly is possible that if I did play it I could change my mind.  I'm just never going to play it, so that's a rather moot point.

Do I get a slap or an attaboy?

Didn't think so.

Ryan, I think where you've gone wrong is you assume way too much about both my game and my personal preferences.  It's kinda odd that you can call me wrong about an opinion based on such.  Call me wrong about what the golf course holds, fine.  But I'm wrong about my own likes and dislikes?  I never knew you knew me that well.

 

Sure, I'd say that deserves a slap....

Seriously, though, the reason I assume you'd like it is that you are a lover of great architecture, and PD fits that through and through.

(And it's fun...)

[Tom Huckaby]

Well, we've finally identified our disconnect.

It is absloutely incorrect to say I am a "lover of great architecture."  In fact, nothing could be further from the truth.  

I am a lover of great golf courses.  The architecture of them is a curiousity at best to me.

And of those great golf courses, I prefer those where there is more fun to be had than getting beaten up.

You might note that at the very beginning of all of this, I stated that I fully believe Prairie Dunes is a great golf course.  I also said in one of my replies to Tom Paul (more or less) that I assume the architecture is interesting and wonderful.

I just continue to have a hard time seeing how it could be tons of fun for what I consider that term to mean.

But you can keep trying to tell me how wrong I am about my own preferences...

TH

[ed_getka]

Jim,
    Here is one for you.

[PCCraig]

Preparing myself for the Midwest Mashie this weekend, I went back and read this thread. I really wish TEPaul's analysis of the final 16 holes of analysis is saved in a a Word doc somewhere...

[corey miller]

Such a great thread that sadly went sideways.....and then petered out after #2. 

[Terry Lavin]

I’m playing in a two day season ender in the third week of October. Here’s hoping the weather holds up because I just love PD.

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