[Jeff_Brauer]

Watching and old episode of "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee" featuring Jerry Seinfeld, who was interviewing Eddie Murphy.


They started debating who would go on a Mt. Rushmore for stand up comedians.  Hold to 4 only.  What is the criteria?  An old timer who may seem dated, but allowed others to build upon their work to improve the craft?  A person who really made more of an impact in film than on stage?  So you represent 4 eras?  Different continents, and genders?  Go with the most famous?  Lesser known that you happen to like?


For you, what 4 would go on a Mt. GolfDesignMore?

[Ian Andrew]

Old Tom Morris
HS Colt
Alister MacKenzie
CB MacDonald

[Kevin Pallier]

I'm with Ian

Whilst there are some great modern designers including Dye, C&C + Doak I have to go with Old Tom, Colt, Mackenzie and Macdonald.

The above 4 cover parts collectively of North America, GB&I, Australasia and a bit of mainland Europe.


 

[Thomas Dai]

Given his ability to build cracking layouts for not much £ on far from ideal terrain I suspect James Braid could layout a pretty good course ON Mount Rushmore!
Atb


PS - and Herbert Fowler did some pretty cool work too.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Old Tom Morris
HS Colt
Alister MacKenzie
CB MacDonald

I tend to agree with more of the old guys being on the list, given our current top designers are inspired to do work like them, rather than something really new, futuristic and dramatic.  How can a generation of admitted copy cats claim to be better than those they copy?


Of course, under that theory, of the modern architects, IMHO, it was Pete Dye who really was a paradigm changer, should probably get on the list somewhere.  As much as I admire Colt's work, he would probably be the one to go off, unless you figure his work, in a similar era and style as Mac's was superior to the good doctor somehow.


Given how little CBM was copied, even in his own generation, it could be him as well that I would replace with Dye, even if he coined the term gca, at least in America.


But, all in all, just a good fun debate with no right answers.

[Jim_Kennedy]

I was just reading an article about Columbia Country Club which said they were looking to pattern their course after NGLA, and it seems that everyone who was anyone made the trek to see it at that time.



CBM changed the architecture game when he built NGLA. It'd be hard to knock him off 'Mt. Rushmore'. 

[Tommy Williamsen]

I was just reading an article about Columbia Country Club which said they were looking to pattern their course after NGLA, and it seems that everyone who was anyone made the trek to see it at that time.



CBM changed the architecture game when he built NGLA. It'd be hard to knock him off 'Mt. Rushmore'.

I never heard that and having played both don't think they succeeded, although I do like CCC. I might put Raynor on the mt even if he bumped of CB. Other three: Ross, Braid, and Colt. Hard not to put Old Tom on it, however. Who says we have to have only four on the mt?

[Michael Moore]

Henry
 
Shapland
 
"Harry"
 
Colt

[Nigel Islam]

Old Tom Morris
HS Colt
Alister MacKenzie
CB MacDonald

Dang it Ian, I was looking forward to reading this thread and you immediately nailed it on reply #1😁

[Jim Hoak]

I'm with Ian exactly--and I agree with Nigel that he nailed it early.  Takes all the fun out of arguing.

[Kalen Braley]

So Donald Ross doesn't go on the Mount?

[Tim Martin]

So Donald Ross doesn't go on the Mount?

It’s a thought provoking question but who comes off??

[Tommy Williamsen]

So Donald Ross doesn't go on the Mount?

It’s a thought provoking question but who comes off??

[/size]I might put Raynor on the mt even if he bumped of CB. Other three: Ross, Braid, and Colt. Hard not to put Old Tom on it, however. Who says we have to have only four on the mt?

[Thomas Dai]

Bit confused with the two concurrent threads - see - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,66657.0.html
nevertheless an aspect that occurs to me is that some were perhaps more originators whereas some followed more of an inspired by (ie copycat?) approach and whether the four on the Mount should be from the former category rather than from the latter? Also involved is perhaps an element of quiet achievers vrs self publicists/promoters?
Atb

[Tim Martin]

As far as the other thread I don’t see a need for a Mount Rushmore of architects that are still building courses. All the presidents were dead guys when it was completed in 1941.

[Brett Morris]

Old Tom Morris
HS Colt
Alister MacKenzie
CB MacDonald

I tend to agree with more of the old guys being on the list, given our current top designers are inspired to do work like them, rather than something really new, futuristic and dramatic.  How can a generation of admitted copy cats claim to be better than those they copy?

I don't post much as I'm a grass guy, however I love this piece.


A few years ago I started a topic on what is the next step in architecture?  We seem to have come full circle and back to minimalist design (which is great) and we are not seeing artificial junk everywhere.  But with only a very small percentage of players able to play the greats and many courses closing due to lack of patronage - why can't architects create something short with no bunkers and a set of really cool greens for interest.  Throw in some ditches for drainage and strategy as well.


But off topic a bit, love Ian's list.

[Tom_Doak]

Though I appreciate support for this honor, I think as a younger generation guy you have to be killed in office to qualify, so I will pass. 😉 And then maybe I will be around long enough to deserve inclusion someday!


Honestly though, golf architects get to create monuments that will hopefully outlive us, so there is really no need to be memorialized in Halls of Fame, Mt Rushmore, etc.  My legacy is my courses, as long as they aren't all given over to hops!

[Kalen Braley]

So Donald Ross doesn't go on the Mount?

It’s a thought provoking question but who comes off??

I know he's the father of the game and all that, but i'm not as high on Old Tom as most on this site....


P.S. Dr.Mac is the only one i would absolutely insist to be on the proverbial mountain...

[Ira Fishman]

Though I appreciate support for this honor, I think as a younger generation guy you have to be killed in office to qualify, so I will pass. 😉 And then maybe I will be around long enough to deserve inclusion someday!


Honestly though, golf architects get to create monuments that will hopefully outlive us, so there is really no need to be memorialized in Halls of Fame, Mt Rushmore, etc.  My legacy is my courses, as long as they aren't all given over to hops!

Tom,


You did not issue the Emancipation Proclamation so I think you are are safe in office.


I am a bit surprised that our UK colleagues have not objected to an analogy based at least in large part on American Independence.  Then again three of the four places on Ian's list are from the UK.


Ira

[Ian Andrew]

Then again three of the four places on Ian's list are from the UK

It could have been easily four ...

[Jim_Kennedy]

Bit confused with the two concurrent threads - see - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,66657.0.html
nevertheless an aspect that occurs to me is that some were perhaps more originators whereas some followed more of an inspired by (ie copycat?) approach and whether the four on the Mount should be from the former category rather than from the latter? Also involved is perhaps an element of quiet achievers vrs self publicists/promoters?
Atb

Thomas,

I think you ought to just tell us what you really think about CBM. 


p.s. One of our Presidents who occupies a spot on Mt. Rushmore was a self publicist and self promoter with an oversized persona
and a big stick that he used as he saw fit. 

[Garland Bayley]

Pre-golden Old Tom Morris
Golden Alister MacKenzie
Modern William Hickman Diddel
Post modern Pete Dye

[Anthony Gholz]

Garland:


For personal reasons I'd sub C&A for Alister, but am most intrigued by your Bill Diddel nomination.  I was raised on a course renovated by him in 1955 and which has six all Diddel holes to this day, so I have a soft spot for him.  Most would agree with your post modern PD nom, but I would take him off based on the number of his mentor's courses that he trashed in all or part.


Anthony

[Steve Lang]

   Hey its 2019, i have to wonder if a jumbotron visual at the WGHOF might be better and change opinions?

[Peter Pallotta]

To go back to the OP for a second: I suppose one of the most influential comedians was Lenny Bruce; maybe you can even say he invented the modern stand-up comic, riffing with cutting-edge abandon on whatever he felt inside himself or saw out in the world instead of just ‘telling jokes’. But from what I can tell: even those old enough to remember seeing him in his prime and who consider him the most *influential* stand up comic of all time wouldn’t say he was the *funniest* stand up comic of all time. And being funny is the whole point of the craft, no?
Which is to ask: I think I know the architects who invented the craft/were the most influential, but who was the funniest?
Who fulfilled the ‘role’ of the architect best?
Shouldn’t that person have the no. 1 spot on the mountain?

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()