[Jonathan Sirois]

  I’m hoping to shed some light on the most important considerations behind determining the time at which the first group can go off at your club/courses you play.


What does it look like to achieve a reasonable balance between allowing Superintendents and their crews to do their job effectively in the morning while allowing for golfers to enjoy the course early, (hopefully) play at a brisk pace, and get home by mid-morning?


Full disclosure: I’m writing from the vantage point of a private club with a good amount of play that lets golfers go off at 7:30 on the weekends and 8:00 during the week. Again, I appreciate all that must be done to prepare a course for the day’s play, but I can’t help but think that a change in some practices could lead to an earlier start.


I'd appreciate your thoughts,
Jon

[Mike Sweeney]

Apologies, I misunderstood the post.

[jeffwarne]

Ther are many factors.


1.What time of year and where are you located?
Here on Eastern Long Island it's getting light at 4:30 in late  June,but by Labor Day sunrise isn't until 6:17.
We start play at 7 am on weekends(Fri-Sun) and 7:30 on weekdays in Peak Season (Memorial Day-Labor Day)
then go back to 7:30 and 8:00


In Augusta Ga, where I grew up, the sun doesn't rise until 6:54 tomorrow so it's difficult to see how they could handle a 7 am start regularly


2. How fast are first groups out and are they solid or will there be gaps?
we do two ball speed slots on weekends and we ask the first group to turn in exactly 1 hour and 30 minutes to prevent them running over the crew.Pretty much all our speed slots are at or near this pace so there really isn't a gap to work in once caught,
on a busy summer weekend there will be no first tee gaps until 11 or 12.
In late August, when we are very busy, the declining daylight/late sunrise makes it a challenge to stay ahead of early play.


3. How much work is going to be done/expected by membership?
4. Crew size

[Rob Marshall]

Rochester NY. 6:45am in the summer. 7:00am in the fall and the spring.

[SL_Solow]

Are there any local sound regulations?  I presume you are only sending groups off one side so that the crew can work on the front side first.  In summer on weekends we usually start about 6:50.  Located in the Chicago area.

[Tyler Kearns]

Are there any local sound regulations?  I presume you are only sending groups off one side so that the crew can work on the front side first.  In summer on weekends we usually start about 6:50.  Located in the Chicago area.

Good point regarding sound regulations, technically our club can't be mowing next to our neighbouring houses until around 9am.  Thankfully, our walk mowers for greens are quiet and generally speaking, our neighbours are good and we mow the inside of the course first.


Our maintenance crew starts at 5am during summer, and first tee times are 7am on weekends, 730am of weekdays.


Tyler

[Jeff Schley]

We have 6 AM tee times here in KSA for the summer months (everyone wants to get out when it is cooler) and then 7 in the winter.  I know our super, who is a nice kid prefers a full foursome going off first so as not to push their maintenance guys who start at 1/10 and work their way back.

[Ken Moum]

In AZ, where I'm playing lately, first tee time has been 5:45 but now it's 6:01, I think.


My wife and have been playing twice a week @ 6:09 and it's still so hot by the time we finish that she's in danger of heat injury, having suffered it before.


The last couple of weeks the lows have gotten to a beautiful low 80s, compared to 90+ previously. So despite record-setting temps above 110 it's okay.


The crew has the benefit of only 25-30 or so players most weekdays, so I don't think it holds them up too much.

[Buck Wolter]

Ther are many factors.


1.What time of year and where are you located?
Here on Eastern Long Island it's getting light at 4:30 in late  June,but by Labor Day sunrise isn't until 6:17.
We start play at 7 am on weekends(Fri-Sun) and 7:30 on weekdays in Peak Season (Memorial Day-Labor Day)
then go back to 7:30 and 8:00


In Augusta Ga, where I grew up, the sun doesn't rise until 6:54 tomorrow so it's difficult to see how they could handle a 7 am start regularly


2. How fast are first groups out and are they solid or will there be gaps?
we do two ball speed slots on weekends and we ask the first group to turn in exactly 1 hour and 30 minutes to prevent them running over the crew.Pretty much all our speed slots are at or near this pace so there really isn't a gap to work in once caught,
on a busy summer weekend there will be no first tee gaps until 11 or 12.
In late August, when we are very busy, the declining daylight/late sunrise makes it a challenge to stay ahead of early play.


3. How much work is going to be done/expected by membership?
4. Crew size

You should patent this --love the speed slots and the 1:30 pace idea.

[Ira Fishman]

DC suburbs. Our club starts at 7am unless there is frost or in dark shoulder seasons. Generally, I have the 7:10am time. Group ahead is finished in 2:35 or so. We finish in 2:45 or so. You can tee off the back for Nine at 7am as well.


Crews just work around the players and the other way around. We putt plenty of times through the dew.


As I have noted, not a particularly special course except for a bunch of blind shots so who cares if the conditions are not pristine but you have the rest of the day for something else or another round?


Ira

[jeffwarne]

There are many factors.


1.What time of year and where are you located?
Here on Eastern Long Island it's getting light at 4:30 in late  June,but by Labor Day sunrise isn't until 6:17.
We start play at 7 am on weekends(Fri-Sun) and 7:30 on weekdays in Peak Season (Memorial Day-Labor Day)
then go back to 7:30 and 8:00


In Augusta Ga, where I grew up, the sun doesn't rise until 6:54 tomorrow so it's difficult to see how they could handle a 7 am start regularly


2. How fast are first groups out and are they solid or will there be gaps?
we do two ball speed slots on weekends and we ask the first group to turn in exactly 1 hour and 30 minutes to prevent them running over the crew.Pretty much all our speed slots are at or near this pace so there really isn't a gap to work in once caught,
on a busy summer weekend there will be no first tee gaps until 11 or 12.
In late August, when we are very busy, the declining daylight/late sunrise makes it a challenge to stay ahead of early play.


3. How much work is going to be done/expected by membership?
4. Crew size

You should patent this --love the speed slots and the 1:30 pace idea.

Buck,
We actually have to slow the first 1-2 groups down(10 minutes per hole is a simple formula)-they have adapted nicely and it allows predictability for the crew and doesn't really slow down later groups as only the first group or 2 can sustain a sub 3 hr pace on a large hilly property.
We do 10-15 speed slots and they all are sub 3:15 so they don't hold up first groups off in 3-4 balls at 8(ish)

[Wayne_Kozun]

Here in Toronto my club has first time of 6:30 in June and July.  Ones we start to get to August the first time moves back to 7 to vie the grounds crew more time.

[John Emerson]

From a superintendent vantage point there’s little more nerving than golfers breathing down the throat of the guys setting up the course.  Rushed employees end up making mistakes and something always seems to get missed. June July August 7:30 M-F 7:00 S&S.  Sept 1 it goes to 8 everyday.  Golfers are not to start 1 minute before the start time.  The early groups, at times, play faster than the work can be done.  There is zero room for error and that makes every single morning extremely stressful.  Golfers always want to get going and finish...I understand this believe me (I’m an avid golfer), but there has to be some understanding that there’s only so much time in the daylight to prepare the course and to golf.  There’s gotta be some give and take.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Here in Chicago, we can tee off at 6:30 on weekends and 7 during the week.
No one off the back 9 until 8 allowing for faster early groups to clear and so the crew can do their job.

[Kalen Braley]

Years ago when they were dumping a ton of money into the Couer D Alene Resort course, they used to do all their maintenance at night with lights on mowers, equipment, helmets, etc.  You never saw any of them on the course while playing..


Why can't more courses do this? 

[Jonathan Sirois]

DC suburbs. Our club starts at 7am unless there is frost or in dark shoulder seasons. Generally, I have the 7:10am time. Group ahead is finished in 2:35 or so. We finish in 2:45 or so. You can tee off the back for Nine at 7am as well.


Crews just work around the players and the other way around. We putt plenty of times through the dew.


As I have noted, not a particularly special course except for a bunch of blind shots so who cares if the conditions are not pristine but you have the rest of the day for something else or another round?

- - - - -

THIS is the pace I'm after. Beautiful. Your point about expecting less-than-pristine conditions at that time is an important one.


I'm also intrigued by the notion of the speed slot. Thanks for the contributions so far.

Ira

[Tommy Williamsen]

One of my clubs has 8:00 starting times in both summer and winter. The other club begins at 7:00. We close the shop from December through February when it is walkers only.

[Justin VanLanduit]

From a superintendent vantage point there’s little more nerving than golfers breathing down the throat of the guys setting up the course.  Rushed employees end up making mistakes and something always seems to get missed. June July August 7:30 M-F 7:00 S&S.  Sept 1 it goes to 8 everyday.  Golfers are not to start 1 minute before the start time.  The early groups, at times, play faster than the work can be done.  There is zero room for error and that makes every single morning extremely stressful.  Golfers always want to get going and finish...I understand this believe me (I’m an avid golfer), but there has to be some understanding that there’s only so much time in the daylight to prepare the course and to golf.  There’s gotta be some give and take.

Safety we find is a huge issue as well.  Just recently we had 3 instances where the early morning rush players have hit into staff preparing the golf course.  I always wonder if they would hit if that was there kid or family member working up there.  We've structured our tee times to allow for our staff to complete the job in an efficient and safely manner.  Although, you get those few instances where we do our best to curtail it.  As seasons change we adjust the time to allow us at least an hour of sunlight before the first tee time.  At the end of the day all we are trying to do is give you a great product to play and enjoy.  My other thought is why should the conditions and the setup be sacrificed for everyone else for a select few that just want to play a quick 1:45-2hr round before going into work?

[Tommy Williamsen]

From a superintendent vantage point there’s little more nerving than golfers breathing down the throat of the guys setting up the course.  Rushed employees end up making mistakes and something always seems to get missed. June July August 7:30 M-F 7:00 S&S.  Sept 1 it goes to 8 everyday.  Golfers are not to start 1 minute before the start time.  The early groups, at times, play faster than the work can be done.  There is zero room for error and that makes every single morning extremely stressful.  Golfers always want to get going and finish...I understand this believe me (I’m an avid golfer), but there has to be some understanding that there’s only so much time in the daylight to prepare the course and to golf.  There’s gotta be some give and take.

Safety we find is a huge issue as well.  Just recently we had 3 instances where the early morning rush players have hit into staff preparing the golf course.  I always wonder if they would hit if that was there kid or family member working up there.  We've structured our tee times to allow for our staff to complete the job in an efficient and safely manner.  Although, you get those few instances where we do our best to curtail it.  As seasons change we adjust the time to allow us at least an hour of sunlight before the first tee time.  At the end of the day all we are trying to do is give you a great product to play and enjoy.  My other thought is why should the conditions and the setup be sacrificed for everyone else for a select few that just want to play a quick 1:45-2hr round before going into work?

The little golf/ski resort, where I live allows members to play when the su comes up. There are a couple guys that play that early, not me!! They know that the the employees have “right of way” and either walk around them or wait til their finished their task. No one complains. It all works because they are gentlemen and our employees are friends.

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