[Ira Fishman]

My wife and I are planning our trip next year with a return visit to Dublin.  Baltray and Portmarnock (neither of which we played the first trip) are on the books.  Both of us truly enjoyed The Island Club--probably Top 10 on my overall personal list.  So the question is do we make a return visit or do we try the European Club for the first time. We do not have time to play both.  I know that the European Club generates some debate here.  Interested as always in your views and advice.


Thanks,


Ira

[jeffwarne]

I love the Island Club and haven't played the European Club...
but having a pint and discussing golf with Pat Ruddy after playing the European Club has been on my bucket list for a long time.

[David Wuthrich]

I have to agree with Jeff.  Once in a lifetime opportunity to visit with a legend.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Everyone should see The European Club. It holds a unique spot in links golf and if Pat is there, all the better.


Baltray is an absolute beauty and has four or five of the best holes in Irish golf. Some masterstroke Simpson touches around a couple of the greens.


If you want accompaniment around Portmarnock, let me know and we can try and meet.


Ally

[mike_malone]

I find that staying north of the city reduces the stress of driving. I would add Royal Dublin versus traveling to The European Club. I enjoyed the course the one time I played it but think staying above the city is a real benefit to a good trip.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Go to The European Club, played both and they are both great courses. Having a few beers with Pat tips the scales. Sadly Mayday is incorrect on this one, must be the mineral water talking.


ed

[Jay Mickle]

Have only played Portmarnock and the European Club. The European Club is certainly worth the drive if you are not giving up Royal County Down or the great courses North and West.

[Sean_A]

Go to The European Club, played both and they are both great courses. Having a few beers with Pat tips the scales. Sadly Mayday is incorrect on this one, must be the mineral water talking.

ed

Must be the water, but I am with Mayday on this one. Unless there is loads of time available, I would stay north of Dublin where nearly all the golf is...unless a 1nighter was on the cards to include Arklow.

Ciao

[Tommy Williamsen]

I play four or five rounds a year at TEC. If you are going to stay north of the city TEC is a bit out of the way. That said, County Wicklow is just stunning. Stay at Powerscourt, go to Glendalough. Drive in the Wicklow mts. Sean is right, Arklow is a neat little course with some good holes. Wicklow GC is not great golf but it sure is fun and is on the way to TEC. Talking golf with Pat Ruddy is a joyful thing. His kids run the pro shop so strike up a conversation with them. Play all 20 holes. I know some are put off by the sleepers in the bunkers but they will become a distinguished part of the lore of the course. When they were built they cost less to maintain. Pat has cut down some of the long grass so if you venture off the the course a bit you will still be able to find and play your ball.
TEC is different than the Island. They both provide a great day.

[Scott Warren]

Pat has cut down some of the long grass so if you venture off the the course a bit you will still be able to find and play your ball.

This is a quite remarkable development — when the jungles of lush rough were critiqued on here previously, Pat was adamant that the course was perfect the way it was.


Maybe in another decade he’ll put back some of the natural fairway contours.


By 2049 it might be worth skipping The Island for.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Pat has cut down some of the long grass so if you venture off the the course a bit you will still be able to find and play your ball.

This is a quite remarkable development — when the jungles of lush rough were critiqued on here previously, Pat was adamant that the course was perfect the way it was.


Maybe in another decade he’ll put back some of the natural fairway contours.


By 2049 it might be worth skipping The Island for.

Just a little nasty, Scott.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Depends what your priorities are, Ira.


If it is hit ‘n’ run golf with no soaking in the city or culture, then staying north of the city might work for you. Choose Malahide for lodgings.


Otherwise it is misguided information. The South side of the city offers lovely enclaves and leafy ‘burbs to stay / visit and you are much closer - as Tommy states - to the Dublin Mountains and all the delights of County Wicklow.


The reason The European is particularly worth visiting is because Pat Ruddy has designed a links with a deliberately modern take (and by that I don’t mean a modern take on golden age design). For that reason, many on this website don’t take to it because it eschews their idea of best soils, shaping and naturalism. But that overlooks what is a fantastic routing through beautiful duneland with some genuinely first class strategic golf holes. It is different and should be celebrated as such.

[Mike Sweeney]

The reason The European is particularly worth visiting is because Pat Ruddy has designed a links with a deliberately modern take (and by that I don’t mean a modern take on golden age design). For that reason, many on this website don’t take to it because it eschews their idea of best soils, shaping and naturalism. But that overlooks what is a fantastic routing through beautiful duneland with some genuinely first class strategic golf holes. It is different and should be celebrated as such.

Ally,


That is a really good description of what the TEC is, and why many have strong feelings against it. I have never been down there, and perhaps next trip I will see it with Portmarnock being the priority.


Slainte

[Ira Fishman]

Many thanks to all as always. We are staying Centre City because we love Dublin for the walking, food, music, and drink. As far as the golf, Castle Stuart and Kingsbarns were my least favorite courses on our recent trips to Scotland. Is the European Club modern like them or in a different way?


Ally, our trip is not until the end of June, but definitely will let you know what day we are playing Portmarnock. Would be great to meet.


Ira

[Craig Sweet]

Why not a round here:   http://corballislinks.com/


It's a fun day, inexpensive, easy to get to.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Why not a round here:   http://corballislinks.com/


It's a fun day, inexpensive, easy to get to.

y'i


I'd second this. Golf at its funnest.




Ally you make a good case for TEC. We should not forget there are other points of view.


PS Has ANYONE ever had 'a pint' with Pat Ruddy? 
I'm sure he told me he was teetotal and that at TEC "we serve a lovely cup of tea".  There certainly wasn't a license when I visited circa a decade ago.

[Peter Pallotta]

Ira -
I’m a sap for such things, and I’m showing my age, and I know next to nothing about great golf courses — so I’m glad you’re staying in Dublin, and I think a lovely idea would be to start reading ‘Ulysses’ a week or so before departure and on the plane ride and soak in the details of that city as filtered through the memories of an exiled native son in the ‘20s
I’m sure the golf will be wonderful wherever you play, but to perambulate though the woo- clank of the city with Joyce at your side seems priceless to me. Portrait of a middle aged American rediscovering the New. 

[Ira Fishman]

Peter,


An excellent idea. It has been forty years since I read it in college. We are doing an a walking tour based on Irish writers even though it is literature that is far from my strongest.


Ira

[Peter Pallotta]

And for our golf games, Ira (well, at least *my* golf game), a quote from one of the many great Irish writers:
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail better.

[JMEvensky]

Peter,


An excellent idea. It has been forty years since I read it in college. We are doing an a walking tour based on Irish writers even though it is literature that is far from my strongest.


Ira

I too took a walking literature tour in Dublin--with a Joyce scholar. It was a great afternoon.


Dublin is a spectacular city, the only downside is you have to eventually go home.

[Ally Mcintosh]

And for our golf games, Ira (well, at least *my* golf game), a quote from one of the many great Irish writers:
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail better.

The greatest, Peter.


Ira: The European is modern in a very different way to Castle Stuart or Kingsbarns.


Those latter two have been almost entirely created and as much as anything show off the skill of the designer and construction team. They are artificial but presented in a natural style, even if the style is somewhat supercharged in places.


The European is a perfectly natural landscape but Pat is not a minimalist. He hasn’t left in place quirky, humpy-bumpy fairways and he’s mixed what appears to be a more loamy topsoil in to the fairways and greens. He’s built a tough course for the top modern day professional. It is a style and philosophy more from the RTJ school than the Doak school. But there is a massive amount of thought gone in to the routing, the holes and the challenges they present. On top of that, it is one of the most gorgeous locations for a golf course on the planet. Walk off the 11th green on a sunny day and then hit your drive on to the red-staked and deserted beach on the 12th and you’ll be grinning from ear to ear. I’m a big fan, even though Pat does things differently with his detail than I would. That’s why it should be celebrated though. Embrace the differences and don’t get stuck in prejudices.

[Ira Fishman]

And for our golf games, Ira (well, at least *my* golf game), a quote from one of the many great Irish writers:
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail better.

The greatest, Peter.


Ira: The European is modern in a very different way to Castle Stuart or Kingsbarns.


Those latter two have been almost entirely created and as much as anything show off the skill of the designer and construction team. They are artificial but presented in a natural style, even if the style is somewhat supercharged in places.


The European is a perfectly natural landscape but Pat is not a minimalist. He hasn’t left in place quirky, humpy-bumpy fairways and he’s mixed what appears to be a more loamy topsoil in to the fairways and greens. He’s built a tough course for the top modern day professional. It is a style and philosophy more from the RTJ school than the Doak school. But there is a massive amount of thought gone in to the routing, the holes and the challenges they present. On top of that, it is one of the most gorgeous locations for a golf course on the planet. Walk off the 11th green on a sunny day and then hit your drive on to the red-staked and deserted beach on the 12th and you’ll be grinning from ear to ear. I’m a big fan, even though Pat does things differently with his detail than I would. That’s why it should be celebrated though. Embrace the differences and don’t get stuck in prejudices.

The quote certainly applies to my game many times over. One of our particular privileges and pleasures in Dublin is that through my job we have gotten to know some of the folks from the Gaelic Players Association who are terrific company. For those of you who have not seen Gaelic football, it is a must to do. We attended the All Ireland Finals on our last trip—matches and maybe exceeds the passion of the Super Bowl.


Ally, thank you for taking the time and care to answer so thoroughly. It makes the decision tougher.


Ira

[Jeff Johnston]

This thread is a great example of what makes this discussion group so good.


Ira, if it was a straight pick (and you hadn’t played either) [size=78%]I’d be with The Island - I share your high opinion of it. However Ally’s points on TEC are well made - albeit I personally do not like the universal  sleepered bunkers at all - and as you haven’t been there I would suggest going to see it. The road down to it is excellent now as well, v easy drive. If you have time kick on to Arklow too as mentioned by Sean - front 9 has the the more linksy holes and brings you back to the house. As documented on here some excellent greens and green complexes as well.[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]As you like walking, drink and craic, I’d also throw in a suggestion - if you haven’t been there yet - to visit The Blue Light pub in the hills above south Dublin - good walking trails nearby, great views and lovely Guinness. Also one of the spots on Shane Lowry’s victory trail after Portrush - a recommendation in itself surely![/size]

[Ira Fishman]

Jeff,


First, thank you for the introduction to the term craic. I looked it up, and it certainly does capture what we love about Ireland. And thanks for the Blue Light Pub recommendation—we will try to check it out.


Let me try return the favor. If you get a chance, go see Stephen Walsh perform. Great singer/songwriter who puts on a fun show. Plus he won the South of Ireland Amateur.


As for the debate about the golf, it might be over. When I told my wife today that I had booked our flights, she said “we are playing The Island Club again, right.”  I am pretty sure that there was no question mark at the end of her statement.


Ira

[Cliff Hamm]

Was at the Blue Light two weeks ago.  FWIW a pic of the pub and one from across the street with a view of Dublin:

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