Home state eclectic 18's

[Ted Sturges]

I live in Indiana.  For more than a decade, I've written a column for iGolf Magazine called A Great Indiana Golf Hole, which features well designed golf holes in the Hoosier state.  It got me thinking recently...what would be my best 18 eclectic holes (#'s 1-18 in Indiana)?  Here is my list.  I invite others to critique my list, or offer the best 18 in your home state.




1.  Culver                   par 5  (starts this eclectic 18 hole round off with a bang...great piece of property and a very cool hole!)
2.  Victoria National     par 4  (a very intimidating look from the tee)
3.  Brickyard Crossing  par 4  (fun short par 4)
4.  Culver                   par 4   (one of the best golf holes in Indiana)
5.  Sagamore Club      par 4   (a nice two shot hole by Mr. Nicklaus)
6.  The Fort                par 5   (interesting par 5 designed by Mr. Dye)
7.  Purdue-Kampen     par 4   (driveable par 5 with two separate routes to the hole...funnest hole on this course)
8.  Broadmoor            par 3   (my only one-shot hole on this list)
9.  Culver                   par 5  (with 3 holes on the front nine, it's no wonder Ran calls Culver the best 9 hole course in the US)


10.  Quail Crossing     par 4   (had to get Doak on this list, and the hole is called "Ted's Elbow" for heavens sake)
11.  Trophy Club        par 5   (Liddy is great at designing interesting par 5's and this is a fun one)
12.  Crooked Stick     par 4   (my favorite hole on my home course)
13.  Broadmoor         par 4   (standout short par 4)
14.  French Lick-Dye  par 5   (a very unique golf hole)
15.  Harrison Hills      par 4   (one of the coolest holes in Indiana)
16.  Sycamore Hills    par 4   (probably the most difficult hole on this list)
17.  Broadmoor         par 5   (one of the coolest greens I've ever seen)
18.  French Lick-Ross par 4   (Ran calls it one of Mr. Ross' best finishing holes, and clearly the best finishing hole in Indiana)


So, I end up with 6 par 5's, 11 par 4's, and one par 3.  Culver leads the way with 3 holes, and Broadmoor has 2 holes...all other entries are single course notations.  The course plays to a par of 77, leaving me zero chance of breaking 80!  But, there is some excellent architecture on this list.  Enjoy!


TS

[mark chalfant]

Ted,
Thanks for your interesting list


I would suggest a few more par threes, maybe one from the great set at Culver, Crooked Stick, or the Warren Course at Notre.
I have not played French Lick Ross or Vincennes, but I  believe their par threes and fours may deserve some spots on your eclectic list. Definitely try to include something from William Diddel's courses. Thank you again, I feel you should lower par to 73 or under.
Mark


p.s. Rock Hollow? 

[mike_malone]

1 Oakmont
2 Lehigh
3 Manufacturers
4 Gulph Mills
5 Merion
6 Torresdale
7 St. David’s
8 Gulph Mills
9 Paxon Hollow


10 Lehigh
11 Lancaster
12 Philadelphia Country Club
13 Glen Mills
14 Huntingdon Valley
15 Oakmont
16 Concord
17 Philadelphia Country
18 Philadelphia Cricket




I played the course. No more than two per course. The actual number hole on the course. I chose only one 3 and one 5


 
Philadelphia Cricket rerouting confused me about old #9.




This is very hard. 

[Ted Sturges]

Mike,


I was thinking 18 at Stonewall might make your list.  Was it under consideration?


TS

[Jaeger Kovich]

1 Oakmont
2 Lehigh
3 Manufacturers
4 Gulph Mills
5 Merion
6 Torresdale
7 St. David’s
8 Gulph Mills
9 Paxon Hollow


10 Lehigh
11 Lancaster
12 Philadelphia Country Club
13 Glen Mills
14 Huntingdon Valley
15 Oakmont
16 Concord
17 Philadelphia Country
18 Philadelphia Cricket




I played the course. No more than two per course. The actual number hole on the course. I chose only one 3 and one 5


 
Philadelphia Cricket rerouting confused me about old #9.




This is very hard.

It’s a lot harder if you only pick 1 hole from each course!

[Ronald Montesano]

What do you mean by "eclectic"? Not what the dictionary means, unless it's the same thing. I need to know my parameters before I tackle the Empire State.

[Mark Saltzman]

I did this 7 years ago for Ontario  (with pictures)... I guess I should update it and figure out an 18th hole!


http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-best-18-holes-in-ontario.html?m=1

[mark chalfant]

Mark,  I hope you do an Ontario update.


My take on Pennsylvania


1. Gulph Mills         415y.
2. Applebrook         366y.
3. Stonewall North  525y.
4. Lulu                    112y.
5. Merion West        391y 
6. Applebrook         396y.
7 Cricket Wissahickon 553y.
8. Manufacturers       116y.
9.Rolling Green        617 y.    par37


10. Glen Mills         181y.
11. Philmont North 245y.
12. Oakmont            583y.
13.Fox Chapel         417 y.
14.Phl Spring Mill  420y
15 French Creek      292y
16 Pine Valley         439y.
17  Merion East      230y.
18. Aronimink         463y.    par34

[JLahrman]

Ted,
Thanks for your interesting list

I would suggest a few more par threes, maybe one from the great set at Culver, Crooked Stick, or the Warren Course at Notre.
I have not played French Lick Ross or Vincennes, but I  believe their par threes and fours may deserve some spots on your eclectic list. Definitely try to include something from William Diddel's courses. Thank you again, I feel you should lower par to 73 or under.
Mark

p.s. Rock Hollow?

Depends how we define eclectic, but about a half dozen of French Lick Ross' holes might qualify simply based on their greens. #3, #4, #8, #13, #17 right off the top of my head. They have to be seen to be believed.

[Ronald Montesano]

As we are a scholarly publication, regularly consulted by the finest minds in the universe, I posit that "eclectic" might not be the word we want here. Are we looking for "funky" "oddball" "unorthodox" "couldn't build it today" "getmegolfingin5words" type stuff, or just simply, a list of the best?


Definition of eclectic (Entry 1 of 2)
1 : composed of elements drawn from various sources
also : HETEROGENEOUS
2 : selecting what appears to be best in various doctrines, methods, or styles
eclectic noun
Definition of eclectic (Entry 2 of 2)
: one who uses a method or approach that is composed of elements drawn from various sources : one who uses an eclectic method or approach

[John Kavanaugh]

If everyone knows what it means then it means what we know.

[John Kavanaugh]

The par three 7th at Vincennes would fit in Ted's adventure.

[Tim Martin]

CONNECTICUT


1.Highfield Club  Par 4  369 yds
2.CC of Waterbury  Par 4  413 yds
3.Grassy Hill CC  Par 3  175 yds
4.Shennecossett GC  Par 3  208 yds
5.CC of Fairfield  Par 4  366 yds
6.Tamarack CC  Par 4  412 yds
7.Wampanoag CC  Par 4  337 yds
8.Shuttle Meadow CC Par 5 545
9.Timberlin Park Par 4  386 yds
10.Chipanee GC   Par 4  440 yds
11.Highland GC Par 4 355 yds
12.TPC River Highlands Par 4 412 yds
13.Keney Park GC Par 3 188 yds
14.CC of Farmington  Par 4  416 yds
15.Brooklawn CC  Par 3   138 yds
16.New Haven CC  Par 4 409 yds
17.Racebrook CC   Par 4  317 yds
18.Yale GC Par 5  621 yds


Out   Par 35  Yards  3211
In      Par 35  Yards  3296
         Par 70  Yards  6507


Before any criticism comes on Yale 18 I LOVE IT

[Peter Pallotta]

I don’t know/play any of those courses, Tim, but that seems like a perfect eclectic: total yardage, mix of par types (ie 3s, 4s, and 5s) and length and variety of holes, classic par 70 etc. I particularly like the finish: short par 3, difficult par 4, short par 4, and then a long 3-shot par 5 —though I don’t like par 5s very much, its Yale and you love it so I suppose that’s okay

[Tim Martin]

I don’t know/play any of those courses, Tim, but that seems like a perfect eclectic: total yardage, mix of par types (ie 3s, 4s, and 5s) and length and variety of holes, classic par 70 etc. I particularly like the finish: short par 3, difficult par 4, short par 4, and then a long 3-shot par 5 —though I don’t like par 5s very much, its Yale and you love it so I suppose that’s okay

PP-Thanks for the kind words. I had another version that was 37 out and 34 in. Yale 18 is one of the most polarizing golf holes on the planet and I understand that. I always thought that if you liked the first 17 and accept that the clubhouse would be sited where it is that it was a true exclamation point for such a unique and bold design. Anyone that hasn't seen it of late needs to come back and get another look as the sight lines on the right side have been reclaimed, the lower fairway has been restablished to intended width and the drainage in the drive zone has been remedied. It's certainly a hole that invokes plenty of emotion.

[mike_malone]

Mike,


I was thinking 18 at Stonewall might make your list.  Was it under consideration?


TS

It should have. 13 is my favorite there. So it tops Glen Mills.

[mike_malone]

Mark,  I hope you do an Ontario update.


My take on PA


1. Gulph Mills 390y.
2. Applebrook 349y.
3. Stonewall North  525 y.
4. Lulu
5. Merion West 391 
6. Applebrook 402y.
7. Phila. Cricket Wissahickon  553y.
8. Lancaster  200yd.
9.Rolling Green   610 y.


10. Glen Mills  203y.
11. Philmont North
12. Oakmont 664y.
13. Merion  122y.
14. Saucon Weyhill 178y.
15 Manufacturers
16 Pine Valley  439y.
17.French Creek  240y.
18. Aronimink   462y.

Mark,


I had two at Pine Valley and then I realized it’s in New Jersey!  A man of your talent shouldn’t make that mistake!

[Pete_Pittock]

Eclectic in golf. An eclectic golf tournament has always been known to post your best hole score for a hole over a designated period. Some tournaments include a stipulation that, like in :wolf" you must declare a hole your best score, even though later you might better the score.   Over a career, a person who has eagled every hole on a par 72 course has an "eclectic" of 54.


In this exercise 'eclectic' means choosing the best 1st hole in a state, then the best 2nd hole in that state, through the 18th hole.
There is no criterion for the definition of best, some might require a limit on the number of holes from a single course.


As for best in Oregon I haven't gone that far. But the 18th would be from Gearhart GL. simply on resistance to scoring. But the best 8th hole would be at Fazio Pronghorn, because of the setting of the green and the blown up lava tube.

[Tim Martin]

Eclectic in golf. An eclectic golf tournament has always been known to post your best hole score for a hole over a designated period. Some tournaments include a stipulation that, like in :wolf" you must declare a hole your best score, even though later you might better the score.   Over a career, a person who has eagled every hole on a par 72 course has an "eclectic" of 54.


In this exercise 'eclectic' means choosing the best 1st hole in a state, then the best 2nd hole in that state, through the 18th hole.
There is no criterion for the definition of best, some might require a limit on the number of holes from a single course.


As for best in Oregon I haven't gone that far. But the 18th would be from Gearhart GL. simply on resistance to scoring. But the best 8th hole would be at Fazio Pronghorn, because of the setting of the green and the blown up lava tube.

The best holes don’t necessarily equate to the best golf course because of sequencing issues. If someone puts forth holes 3,4, and 5 as long par fours north of 450 that sounds like a slog. I tried to put together a set of holes that would flow and be fun to play without being too difficult to enjoy. All the yardages are from the back tee.

[archie_struthers]

 


I haven't played enough North Jersey courses to do a complete list. Played so much golf in Philly.Here's a few to add and mix with others posters. Going to limit Pine Valley to two holes as it would overwhelm my personal list. will add and sequence hoping to find "flow" .....


         

1       Galloway National  (1)    par four             great start to a unique experience, subtle and beautiful
2       Woodcrest             (12) par four              not many have played it but its awesome   
3       Somerset Hills        (2)   par three            classic redan
4       Pine Valley             (4)   par four              angles so important, lots of strategy    *(post 1995 bunkers must go)
5       Hidden Creek         (10) par four               gotta be FIRM and fast and its a hoot
6   
7
8
9.      Baltusrol (upper).     (18) par four     
10    The Shore Club        (15)  par five              quirky and fun make 3 or 7
11    Twisted Dune           (13)  par three            I know, I know but its really good
12     Pine Valley              (13)  par four              tests ball striking and golf IQ
13
14
15
16
17
18

[Tom_Doak]

Here's my first pass on an eclectic 18 for Michigan, although I am sure there are a few worthy holes I haven't seen, or didn't remember.  Limited to one hole per course, though not in the honorable mentions, because Michigan is plenty deep in great golf:


1st at Greywalls (par 5) - runners-up The Mines and Belvedere
2nd at Orchard Lake (par 4) - runners-up Detroit GC (North) and Lost Dunes
3rd at Bay Harbor (par 4) - runner-up Kingsley Club
4th at Indianwood (Old) (par 4) - runners-up Lost Dunes and The Loop (Black)
5th at Barton Hills (par 3) - runners-up Crystal Downs and Greywalls
6th at Pilgrim's Run (par 5) - runners-up Crystal Downs and The Loop (Red)
7th at Lost Dunes (par 4) - runners-up Crystal Downs and Bay Harbor
8th at Crystal Downs (par 5) - runners-up The Dunes Club and Stoatin Brae
9th at Point O'Woods (par 3) - runners-up Franklin Hills and Boyne Highlands (Heather)


10th at Stoatin Brae (par 4) - runners-up Franklin Hills and Black Forest
11th at Oakland Hills South (par 4) - runners-up Belvedere and Lost Dunes
12th at The Loop (Red) (par 4) - runners-up Forest Dunes and The Loop (Black)
13th at Franklin Hills (par 4) - runners-up Plum Hollow and Crystal Downs
14th at The Loop (Black) (par 4) - runners-up Oakland Hills South and Crystal Downs
15th at Kingsley Club (par 4) - runners-up Crystal Downs and Oakland Hills South
16th at Belvedere (par 4) - runner-up Barton Hills
17th at Forest Dunes (par 4) - runner-up The Loop (Red)
18th at Battle Creek (par 4) - runners-up CC of Detroit and Indianwood (Old)


Note:  I know that the back nine is all par-4's, and five of them are short par-4's.  I like par-4's, and I didn't want to use the 14th at Crystal Downs or the 17th at Oakland Hills (South) over the 8th and 11th, just to get a par-3 on the back nine.  If you've got something better, preach.


Omissions:  Grosse Ile, U of M, Arcadia Bluffs, Meadowbrook - I think these are all fine courses, but I could not remember them well enough to say that any hole definitely beat out one of the above.

[Kyle Harris]

Roscommon, MI: Our 12th Holes will knock your socks off!

I'll be playing more than a few of the holes on Tom's list next week.

[Brad Tufts]

Massachusetts, a first go...I'm struggling with 1, 14, and 15.  I've tried to pick each course's most prominent holes.  For instance, I have my home course of Tedesco for #1...it's a very good hole, but not among our three best holes.


1. Tedesco, 430 par 4  (needs help)
2. Concord CC, 450 par 4...runner up Brae Burn
3. Kittansett, 160 par 3...runners up TCC, Franklin Park
4. George Wright, 425 par 4...runners up Concord, Eastward Ho!, Myopia
5. Old Sandwich, 320 par 4...runners up Boston GC, Eastward Ho!, Plymouth
6. Boston GC, 165 par 3...runners up Tedesco, Plymouth
7. Myopia, 410 par 4...runners up Old Sandwich, Kernwood
8. Winchester, 450 par 4...runners up Charles River, Longmeadow
9. Myopia, 130 par 3...runners up Whitinsville, Taconic
10. George Wright, 460 par 4 (needs help)
11. Essex, 175 par 3...runners up TCC, Oyster Harbors
12. Charles River, 360 par 4...runner up Black Rock
13. Salem, 330 par 4...runner up Taconic?
14. Dedham, 225 par 3?(needs help)
15. (needs help)
16. Essex, 450 par 4...runners up Tedesco, Winchester
17. TCC, 380 par 4...runner up Boston GC, Wyantenuck
18. Eastward Ho!, 460 par 4...lots of candidates here...Salem, TCC, Worcester, Brae Burn, Orchards


I have no par fives listed above in the first selections...#11 at TCC might be the best par five in Mass, but I may be missing something, #17 at Boston GC is also great.  I have not included anything above that I have not played...so that means no Nantucket courses, no Hanse-ified Vineyard Club, no Belmont/Blue Hill/Cohasset/Hyannisport/Woods Hole, etc.

[Tim Martin]

Massachusetts, a first go...I'm struggling with 1, 14, and 15.  I've tried to pick each course's most prominent holes.  For instance, I have my home course of Tedesco for #1...it's a very good hole, but not among our three best holes.


1. Tedesco, 430 par 4  (needs help)
2. Concord CC, 450 par 4...runner up Brae Burn
3. Kittansett, 160 par 3...runners up TCC, Franklin Park
4. George Wright, 425 par 4...runners up Concord, Eastward Ho!, Myopia
5. Old Sandwich, 320 par 4...runners up Boston GC, Eastward Ho!, Plymouth
6. Boston GC, 165 par 3...runners up Tedesco, Plymouth
7. Myopia, 410 par 4...runners up Old Sandwich, Kernwood
8. Winchester, 450 par 4...runners up Charles River, Longmeadow
9. Myopia, 130 par 3...runners up Whitinsville, Taconic
10. George Wright, 460 par 4 (needs help)
11. Essex, 175 par 3...runners up TCC, Oyster Harbors
12. Charles River, 360 par 4...runner up Black Rock
13. Salem, 330 par 4...runner up Taconic?
14. Dedham, 225 par 3?(needs help)
15. (needs help)
16. Essex, 450 par 4...runners up Tedesco, Winchester
17. TCC, 380 par 4...runner up Boston GC, Wyantenuck
18. Eastward Ho!, 460 par 4...lots of candidates here...Salem, TCC, Worcester, Brae Burn, Orchards


I have no par fives listed above in the first selections...#11 at TCC might be the best par five in Mass, but I may be missing something, #17 at Boston GC is also great.  I have not included anything above that I have not played...so that means no Nantucket courses, no Hanse-ified Vineyard Club, no Belmont/Blue Hill/Cohasset/Hyannisport/Woods Hole, etc.

Brad-Great runner up pick on Wyantenuck 17. One of the tougher approaches in Massachusetts or anywhere else and a great assist from Charles Banks who I think had a hand in four holes. The term “Hidden Gem” absolutely describes Wyantenuck as it’s one that few outside the Berkshires have heard of or have on their radar.