Architecture or playing surface...what is the priority ???

[archie_struthers]

 

Hey guys any Willie Park Jr historians out there.  We are doing some tinkering with the bunkers at our club , Greate Bay in Somers point NJ


The golf course was originallly laid out by Willie Park Jr in 1923 and completed around 1925 for play   Lots of the old Park features remain yet George Fazio did a fairly extensive renovation  in the 70's adding more than 50 bunkers to the property. In all most of George's redo was IMHO quite good.  

There are some bunkers I'm in favor of removing, but we are particularly aware of the need to redo the green complex on hole #4, specifically the left greenside bunkers.  The small walkup between the two traps is constantly under stress , as most of the traffic enters the green thru a four yard wide alley between the flanking bunkers.  A simple solution seems to be to conect the bunkers and divert traffic to front and back of the green , spreading out the wear. There is not 100% agreement from our committee on this, as
theire is division in our ranks whether to have the 1927/ 1940 or 1975 incarnation set the standard for architectural decisions and changes..

My feeling is that conditioning issues are paramount , and if an archtiectu feature precludes maintaining excellent conditions the feaure be damned. What say you to this

[Brent Hutto]

I would agree with that prioritization completely. After one visit to an architecturally fascinating course with impeccable credentials and traceable "authenticity" that offers mediocre playing conditions I would probably decline future rounds there. But a course with only a modicum of GCA interest, perhaps dodgy historical continuity and very good playing conditions I'd return any time I had a chance.

And as a members course where I play 100 times a year the question is a no-brainer.

[JMEvensky]

I would agree with that prioritization completely. After one visit to an architecturally fascinating course with impeccable credentials and traceable "authenticity" that offers mediocre playing conditions I would probably decline future rounds there. But a course with only a modicum of GCA interest, perhaps dodgy historical continuity and very good playing conditions I'd return any time I had a chance.

And as a members course where I play 100 times a year the question is a no-brainer.

Man,that first paragraph is well put.

[Brent Hutto]

I will add one clarification about my hypothetical. It isn't that I would not enjoy or appreciate seeing an "authentic" course of architectural or historical interest. Just that absent good conditioning the one visit would usually suffice to scratch my "authenticity" itch.

[Mark McKeever]

Like hole 2 at Galloway, connect the bunkers and make a walkway of wooden planks.  It looks nice and blends well.

Mark

[Tony_Muldoon]

Archie (seems like you were misnamed ) that kind of feature is all over the place in GB&I.

Many times in winter you will see a few metal hoops across such a feature and this will divert the majority of walkers to the front or back. This is done mostly in winter when the grass just don’t grow.   Members seem to accept it fine.  If your course has only limited play then I wouldn’t think they need to be out that often. Most of the guys on here visit in summer so they wouldn’t see that, but restricting access is really common over here.


Brent once again you surprise me, I though the comparatively scruffy conditions here were part of the charm?  What’s so bad about having a bare lie if your ball happens to find the space between two bunkers?

[Brent Hutto]

Tony,

That's why I said good playing conditions. Scruffy is definitely not an issue and lush is in many (but not all) cases the antithesis of good from a playing perspective. The things that turn me off are poor drainage, soft aprons, overwatering, too much rough that's too thick leading to endless lost-ball searches, divot-filled drainage depressions (redundant with above) and so forth. As long as the soil is firm and drained a few bare or near-bare lies are fine by me and are something I learned to play off at the unirrigated course I played on for my first decade.

And thanks for setting me up to use "antithesis" for the first time in months!

[Tony_Muldoon]

My pleasure, so when do we see you next?

[Brent Hutto]

I've been saying for quite a while that 2011 will be a little-to-no travel year for me. Recently it is becoming more of a mantra I repeat without ceasing than the simple statement of fact it was a couple months ago. That situation will be helped greatly when at last someone grabs that damned 24th slot in Buda IX. I hope it is Real Soon Now.

[archie_struthers]

 

Thanks for chiming in, Tony my family tree hails to Glascow , lots of Archies in the house.

I like the less is more bunker design Park originally laid out here at our club, and consider removal of newer ones to promote healthy turf conditions the correct route . We often forget that traffic issues are so important to our superintendents, particularly at busier courses . We play a little less than 30,000 rounds here with 90% between April and October...lousy springs great fall growing weather at the jersey shore  

With few exceptiions a golf course is an evolving work, as trees and bunkers grow, greens shrink and equipment renders some great holes obsolete. I'm for scruffy but healthy , which Brent may envision as nirvana! lol