[Kalen Braley]

Two questions:

1)  What was so awful about the original 17 and 18 finish of the Dunlance.  Is it space?... because if thats the case TOC does horribly in this category and gets the Open every 5 years.

2)  I'm inclined to agree with Sean on the lack of trickle down.  What mechanisms would facilitate lower tiers from benefiting outside of the immediate area of the venue?  It seems the local hosting course (and adjacent ones), its local economy, and the R&A take nearly all of the profits from an Open.

[Sean_A]

Ally

Yes, messing with the Valley to improve a course already good enough to hold the Open does stick in my craw. It's emblematic of Tim's point. But you are right, it's small beer until we can find far better ways to support the second and third tier courses and clubs. The Open supports relatively wealthy clubs and feeds the vault of the R&A. We then must rely on that money somehow making it to the truly needy clubs and courses. I would have a different PoV if the R&A was committing those funds they make from the alterations to the local clubs in need. That would be something.

Ciao

[Rob Marshall]

Did 17 and 18 shift over to the Valley course as they previously existed?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sean,


The course was good enough to hold The Open but that wasn’t the point. There was no room for the infrastructure and tented village. So the club couldn’t get The Open without the two new holes.


Ally

[Jon Wiggett]

Kalen,


the profits from The Open benefit the local economy massively with every room in the area being sold out at premium prices, all tables at restaurants, etc, etc....


However, I do think you and Sean have a point though in that the R&A do not do enough for golf in the area. Indeed, They appear to have abandoned UK golf in general.

[Thomas Dai]

The multiplier effect.
Atb

[Tommy Williamsen]

From everything I have heard and read the membership is happy with the changes to both courses. It is their course.

[Kalen Braley]

Still curious about the "there was no room" issue without re-purposing the old 17 and 18.  There is a whole entire course sitting vacant.  Sure the configuration might not have been as convenient, but they still had plenty of space.


On Google maps, I can see two adjacent holes on the valley course next to to the old 17 and Practice green.  This wouldn't have worked?


 

[Mike Sweeney]

Ally

The Open supports relatively wealthy clubs and feeds the vault of the R&A. We then must rely on that money somehow making it to the truly needy clubs and courses. I would have a different PoV if the R&A was committing those funds they make from the alterations to the local clubs in need. That would be something.

Ciao

I got a message from Enniscrone about Nick Faldo playing the course along with Rosses Point. Obviously he is only Tweeting this out to his 300,000 followers due to The Open being at Royal Portrush -


https://twitter.com/NickFaldo006/status/1150866156950970368


Yes, you and I have been fans of Enniscrone, but Nick Faldo has a following and Enniscrone was clearly appreciative:


https://twitter.com/EnniscroneGolf/status/1150908813853298689

[Tom_Doak]

I agree with the premise of Tim Gallant’s thread. However, this change at Portrush I think was the right choice, at least as a plan. I can always argue about the detailing not being to my taste but that is a small issue.

This is where I disagree with you, and with the many who are so cavalier about making changes to classic courses.


Getting tge detailing right is very hard to do, and if you don't get it right, it stands out as an obvious intrusion for years to come.  I think that's a significant reason NOT to tinker around with courses, especially Dunluce which was closer to a pure Colt design than any other links.


Those who say the concept is good but the details were a bit weak, are not understanding.  Golf holes are all about the details.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Lots of golf courses tick the boxes for being good enough. It is the infrastructure which is paramount and many boxes need to be ticked to get. Weston Super Mare ticks more boxes than Burnham and Berrow. We live in a world where all the boxes need a tick.


As it was Portrush did not make it. With a plan it did.


It is for the Club itself to decide and weigh up the pro's and cons of having the Open Golf Championship again and probably in 2024.


I am pleased with their choice. The new replacement holes are significantly better than the old 17th and 18th in my opinion. Yes they have lost a bit of history but that is the price.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I agree with the premise of Tim Gallant’s thread. However, this change at Portrush I think was the right choice, at least as a plan. I can always argue about the detailing not being to my taste but that is a small issue.

This is where I disagree with you, and with the many who are so cavalier about making changes to classic courses.


Getting tge detailing right is very hard to do, and if you don't get it right, it stands out as an obvious intrusion for years to come.  I think that's a significant reason NOT to tinker around with courses, especially Dunluce which was closer to a pure Colt design than any other links.


Those who say the concept is good but the details were a bit weak, are not understanding.  Golf holes are all about the details.

Tom,


Basically I don’t want to come on here and berate a fellow architect for his detailing.


If you read between the lines, however, you might notice that I am vehemently against so much tinkering on our classic links, exactly because I’m not keen on the detailing, thinking that it takes away from individuality and doesn’t fit with the rest of the course in so many cases.


In this case, I’m calling the detailing a small issue in the bigger scheme of the two new holes. Doesn’t mean I like it but I still think the concept was the right one and would still go with it having seen the final product.

[MClutterbuck]

From what I heard the Valley course is much improved... in fact, I am now told i should make it part of a tour to NI.

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