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Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Green speeds/3 putts
« on: July 19, 2019, 08:11:58 AM »
What green speeds are ideal on the average course to reduce three-putting?  Too fast or too slow will increase three putting, but what Stimp do you think is ideal?
I know this will vary for individual golfers, and will vary depending on the contours of the individual course.  But what do you believe is ideal?

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green speeds/3 putts
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2019, 11:54:22 AM »
10 is a good speed for everyone IMO
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green speeds/3 putts
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2019, 12:21:38 PM »
Conventional wisdom (and I think about 90% of public courses) still in the 9-9.5 range as a good compromise between smooth and difficult.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green speeds/3 putts
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2019, 01:18:16 PM »
I agree with about 9. Downhillers don't get away from higher handicappers and they can give it a whack to get the ball to the hole. Dave Pelz did a study years ago and found that a slight variation in speed hurts most on fast greens. You can get away with more on slower greens.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green speeds/3 putts
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2019, 02:19:51 PM »
What green speeds are ideal on the average course to reduce three-putting?  Too fast or too slow will increase three putting, but what Stimp do you think is ideal?
I know this will vary for individual golfers, and will vary depending on the contours of the individual course.  But what do you believe is ideal?



Jim,


this will vary for individual golfers, and will vary depending on the contours of the individual course.



 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green speeds/3 putts
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2019, 02:22:20 PM »
There seems, probably accidentally but maybe cause and effect, to be relationship between height of cut (mm) and putter loft.
These days circa 3-4*. Previously circa 5-6*. Earlier times 8-9*. Just an oberservation.
Atb

Rick Lane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green speeds/3 putts
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2019, 02:38:36 PM »
Agreed 9-10.   On very sloped greens, above 10 limits hole locations, which is what makes slopes fun!  Below 9, and people complain about 'slow" greens......so the happy medium is in that range I think....

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green speeds/3 putts
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2019, 05:49:10 PM »
I heard and agree that very slow greens make short putts harder because you have to make a longer and firmer stroke. I'm not sure at what green speed that would kick in. Maybe around 8 or so?

John Emerson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green speeds/3 putts
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2019, 06:41:05 PM »
10 is borderline too fast for average Joe.  9 is perfect.
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green speeds/3 putts
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2019, 07:15:40 PM »

FYI, my opinion comes from asking the chief agronomists at several management companies what they keep their dozens of courses greens speeds at, along with several individual superintendents.  And, while I haven't seen every one of their courses, I presume most have greens where the cup areas are sloped at 2-3% as is general in the industry, making it a pretty good average.  I am sure there are variations.


Which is why the debate about green speeds is often hilarious, just like most things where the discussion is based on tour pros, rather than what golf in this country is really like in 2019.


Even at upscale private clubs, I think the reported or assumed average green speed isn't as high as imagined.  Of course, this opinion is influenced by a story I have told here before.  At one such famous club, the super was a friend of mine.  I asked green speeds (in the presence of his greens chairman, who was standing just in front of the super) The answer was a confident "11+" with a wink that only I could see, clearly indicating that he (as other supers in I know in similar positions) inflated their green speed numbers to bolster members egos both in the bar bragging on their course, and on the course by allowing them putt reasonably well.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

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