Langford and Moreau: besides Lawsonia

[mark chalfant]

Their architecture is superb.  Please discuss some of your favorites and why you enjoy playing them !


Rural and off the beaten path golf courses are especially welcome.




NO Lawsonia  or Skokie  please

[Ira Fishman]

Mark,


I grew up in Skokie and have played Bryn Mawr dozens of times (my Dad was a Member).  I never thought it was anything special both before and after I developed some interest in Gca. It is a dead flat, small site so in looking back perhaps Langford did the best with what he had to work with—the bunkering is very good.  I also played Park Ridge and LaGrange in high school, and they never struck me as special either. Admittedly it was 45 years ago way before my interest in gca. On the other hand, that was also when I played Oak Park which I thought was quite interesting, and I had no idea who Ross was at the time.


Never did get to play Skokie.


Sorry to offer a slightly and uneducated difference of view.


Ira

[Jon Heise]

Go up to Marquette, MI and see the Heritage course there.  They've got only 9 original L&M's but outside the inevitable tree encroachment and green shrinking, they're nearly untouched in like 80 years.  Phenomenal stuff.  They planned to build 18, but never got there.  Fun, wild, vintage.  If they had the full 18, it'd be an equal to Lawsonia in my mind.  A more severe, compact Lawsonia.  I wrote a detailed post for my blog site last year, I'd be happy to share the link if anyone would like to see.


There's lots of Chicago guys here that'll chime in and say Spring Valley, Kankakee, and a bit further out Harrison Hills.  A real shame that these two designers don't get the press that some of the other ODG architects get.  Too few of their courses have survived intact as well, which is why I think a lot of us GCA folks are really flocking to the ones that made it this far.

[AStaples]

The front 9 at West Bend CC is incredible, and the perfect place to learn the game! 


Texarkana CC is really good.  Past renovations have altered the greens, and some of the routing.  However, they have an incredible original plan and photo documentation, and many of the Langford features still exist and are buried in the trees.

[Bill Shotzbarger]

Culver Academies


I have not played but it's known as one of the best nine-hole courses in the U.S.  Would love to hear about it...

[Jeff Schley]

I'm a huge Kankakee Elks fan as I'm a Chicago native. Mom grew up there and sister and her family are down there still. Wonderful course layout that needs a restoration with trees, bunkers and greens all in need of some attention.  However, it is in fairly good shape in the summer/fall, although I haven't seen it this summer yet. Love to see even a minor restoration there.

[Ken Fry]

Culver always had the solid bones of the original course but the renovation brought it back to life and supt Mike Vessely has the course dialed in wonderfully.  On par with Lawsonia in my opinion.  Love playing them both.


Marquette Langford nine has so much potential.  It’s a shame the other nine was built without referring to Langfird’s Plan.  Still worth playing and lots of fun. 


Harrison Hills is also a great sleeper with Tim Liddy integrating in another 9 holes.


Christiana Creek in Elkhart, IN was a Langford but not much left to see.  Not sure if the course is open anymore as the facility fell on hard times with flooding over the last few years.


Langford is credited with 9 holes at Fort Wayne CC but I didn’t find much left to see.


Ken

[Lynn_Shackelford]

The front 9 at West Bend CC is incredible, and the perfect place to learn the game! 


Texarkana CC is really good.  Past renovations have altered the greens, and some of the routing.  However, they have an incredible original plan and photo documentation, and many of the Langford features still exist and are buried in the trees.

I would take the front nine at West Bend Hills over any 9 holes at Lawsonia, Blue Mound or Milwaukee CC.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ken,


Did you ever make it down to play Vincennes?

[Rees Milikin]

The front 9 at West Bend CC is incredible, and the perfect place to learn the game! 


Texarkana CC is really good.  Past renovations have altered the greens, and some of the routing.  However, they have an incredible original plan and photo documentation, and many of the Langford features still exist and are buried in the trees.

I would take the front nine at West Bend Hills over any 9 holes at Lawsonia, Blue Mound or Milwaukee CC.

This is spot on.  The 3rd green is all world and is the most memorable green I have ever seen.


Their work at Eglin AFB near Pensacola is really good and the old photos are stunning, but until it makes it way back to private hands, nothing is going to change.  This is the only course they did in FL that has anything remaining that resembles L&M.


The Country Club in Morristown, TN is a solo Langford design and is on par with their other works most are familiar with, but the added bonus of having the greens break in crazy directions due to the pull of nearby mountains (similar to Lookout’s greens).


Gatlinburg Golf Course was at one time Langford, but I think it been altered a fair amount, maybe someone who has played it can chime in.


Maxinkuckee is right down the street from Culver and all the holes on the southern end of the property are amazing.  If given a little love similar to Culver, they would be way more well known.  However, there are a few holes that bear no resemblance to L&M, so not sure what happened to them over time.


St. Clair CC in East St. Louis looks pretty appealing, however can’t speak to it b/c I’ve never been there.


Franklin County CC in West Frankfort, IL has 9 holes what appears to be relatively untouched L&M.  It’s public, but other than a couple of mentions on GCA, not much info out there.

[Ken Fry]

Ken,


Did you ever make it down to play Vincennes?

Jaka,
Haven't made it down there yet.  It's a pretty long haul from my part of the state and trips to Bloomington are usually with the family.  Still on the radar for a visit and still owe you a post round beverage!
Ken

[John Kavanaugh]

Vincennes is interesting. The front nine is as original design as can be.


If I am owed a beverage it is only because a generous member of this site got me comped at Erin Hills. I think I bought a few beers in return. That was a great day with a bunch of fine gentlemen.


Speaking of that, what is the name of the portly tax attorney that loved the Gophers? Not sure if he was even on that outing but I may want to contact him.

[Phil McDade]

The front 9 at West Bend CC is incredible, and the perfect place to learn the game! 


Texarkana CC is really good.  Past renovations have altered the greens, and some of the routing.  However, they have an incredible original plan and photo documentation, and many of the Langford features still exist and are buried in the trees.

I would take the front nine at West Bend Hills over any 9 holes at Lawsonia, Blue Mound or Milwaukee CC.

This is a bit much. West Bend's front nine is indeed very good, but to suggest any combination of 9 holes from among the state's three best courses is not its equal is a bridge too far for my tastes. It might be the 4th best complete 9-hole run in the state. (I'd take the front and back nine of Milwaukee, and the front nine of Lawsonia.) Having said that, it's a close debate, and worthy of discussion.


Spring Valley is a solid 18-hole, largely untouched Langford that's completely bunkerless; a fun course that's tougher than its 6,400 yds might indicate. Ozaukee is a the last of the Wisconsin Langfords, in suburban Milwaukee, a terrific routing and some strong holes that doesn't quite adhere to some of the architect's work (bunkering, notably), but a solid routing and good set of greens:


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44430.msg967860.html#msg967860


The seniors have played Wakonda, in Iowa, and some on the board have played it, but unclear to me how much Langford is left there.

[Phil McDade]

The front 9 at West Bend CC is incredible, and the perfect place to learn the game! 


Texarkana CC is really good.  Past renovations have altered the greens, and some of the routing.  However, they have an incredible original plan and photo documentation, and many of the Langford features still exist and are buried in the trees.

I would take the front nine at West Bend Hills over any 9 holes at Lawsonia, Blue Mound or Milwaukee CC.

This is spot on.  The 3rd green is all world and is the most memorable green I have ever seen.

The 17th green at Spring Valley is better.

[Rees Milikin]

The front 9 at West Bend CC is incredible, and the perfect place to learn the game! 


Texarkana CC is really good.  Past renovations have altered the greens, and some of the routing.  However, they have an incredible original plan and photo documentation, and many of the Langford features still exist and are buried in the trees.

I would take the front nine at West Bend Hills over any 9 holes at Lawsonia, Blue Mound or Milwaukee CC.

This is spot on.  The 3rd green is all world and is the most memorable green I have ever seen.

The 17th green at Spring Valley is better.

When I played the 17th at Spring Valley, I thought it was good, when I played the 3rd at West Bend, my jaw dropped at its uniqueness.


Spring Valley has potential, but in its current state leaves a lot to be desired.

[Terry Lavin]

Bryn Mawr in Chicagoland has been GREATLY improved by a Jim Nagle restoration about five years ago. It’s not a dramatic piece of land but they have a collection of challenging half-par holes that are very fun to play. The routing is solid and the tree removal has exposed the great bones of the golf course. We had a gca play day there a couple years ago that was well received and I’m sure I could get some traction for another if there’s interest. It’d be fun to see Ira come back and see the changes.

[Ira Fishman]

Judge,


Thanks for the shout out. My Dad loved golf so much that they moved to Kolmar just off of Pratt so that he could get to the course in less than 5 minutes. Like you, he played over 200 rounds a year which ain’t easy in the Chicago weather.


My Mom is still on Kolmar. Another outing and I will be there.


Ira

[Blake Conant]

Maxwelton in IN has a few good holes and hasn't been mentioned yet.

For those in Chicago, is there anything left at:

Winnetka (the big course or the par 3)
westmoreland
park ridge
hickory hills north
Ruth Lake

I'm also curious about:

Keokuk and Oneota in IA
oakland city in IN
indian hills in KY
minnehaha in SD
avon fields in OH
portage CC in OH
Iron River in MI

[Jason Thurman]

Blake, it’s unclear to me whether Avon Fields is actually Langford. I’ve heard it attributed to him but also to Bendelow. There are a few sharply pushed up greens, and it’s certainly a fun and spunky small course.


I really enjoy Clovernook. And Harrison Hills. I’m with Rees on Spring Valley.


Did Langford hit the scene at the wrong time? It seems like their heyday was really limited by the Great Depression and the financial struggles that quickly affected many of their designs.

[Sven Nilsen]

Blake, it’s unclear to me whether Avon Fields is actually Langford. I’ve heard it attributed to him but also to Bendelow.

No Bendelow.  Laid out by Phil Honeyman in 1914.  Reconstructed by Langford in 1924-25 with Diddel making improvements in 1933.

[Nigel Islam]

Vincennes is interesting. The front nine is as original design as can be.


If I am owed a beverage it is only because a generous member of this site got me comped at Erin Hills. I think I bought a few beers in return. That was a great day with a bunch of fine gentlemen.


Speaking of that, what is the name of the portly tax attorney that loved the Gophers? Not sure if he was even on that outing but I may want to contact him.

Agree the front nine at Vincennes is really cool. St Clair was a recent treat, and I agree with Rees on Eglin. I’ve played Franklin Hills in Illinois which has some cool Langford holes left. Clovernook is pretty solid too.

[Conley Hurst]

Texarkana CC is really good.  Past renovations have altered the greens, and some of the routing.  However, they have an incredible original plan and photo documentation, and many of the Langford features still exist and are buried in the trees.

As a native Arkansan, I am biased. But I adore Texarkana CC. The property is fantastic, as is the routing. The club is slowly working to restore some of the lost Langford & Monroe features. They recently rebuilt and expanded the greens and are restoring a few of the huge cross bunkers. It's still a work in progress though. I can think of few courses that would benefit more from a extensive, faithful restoration.

[Joe_Tucholski]

Their work at Eglin AFB near Pensacola is really good and the old photos are stunning, but until it makes it way back to private hands, nothing is going to change.  This is the only course they did in FL that has anything remaining that resembles L&M.

I know Rees just wants a great course to return to glory but I'm hoping it never goes into private hands.  I'll be the first to say the conditions are less than ideal at certain times of the year. 


The thing is the course cost me $20 to play.  Even better the younger military members paid $10.  Anyone can go play it for $30.  The area has the $100+ dollar a round courses over in the resort areas of Destin.


The low budget is likely the reason the course is the only remaining course that resembles L&M, they can't make changes (although the greens were redone in 2008).  They have likely lost some bunkers but it's one of the best military courses out there and serves it's purpose wonderfully.

[Nigel Islam]

Does anyone have any information on Oakland City GC in Indiana? It's listed in C&W as a Langford, but I find that hard to believe. Otherwise I can't seem to find much about it.

[Blake Conant]

Does anyone have any information on Oakland City GC in Indiana? It's listed in C&W as a Langford, but I find that hard to believe. Otherwise I can't seem to find much about it.

Golf Advisor and a couple other non-reliable internet sources list it as a John and Chick Farmer design from 1947.  Seems easier to believe.