[Niall C]

I thought I'd start a fresh thread on this course because all I could find in the search engine was passing references to the course on threads about something else.

The course is a relative youngster having opened in 1981, just 6 years after Carnoustie got back on the Open rota. Designed by Peter Allis and Dave Thomas, this course had a pretty dire reputation. Despite being an infrequent visitor to Carnoustie I was never tempted to give it a go. It was known for having ponds and trees and frankly being un-links like so why would you want to ?

It still wasn't on my radar until just before the recent Open at Carnoustie, when I met up with Donald Ford, enthusiast and writer about golf at Carnoustie, and John Philp, former head greenkeeper and the man who did so much to bring back the Open. With the discussion on the Championship course, they mentioned the idea that had been toyed with of using the par 3 second on the Buddon for the Open and playing it after the second hole while taking out the par 3 13th. Both raved about the 2nd as being a better hole.

That got my interest and was enough to make me want to play the Buddon which I eventually did a few weeks ago. I'm glad I did. What I played was a far cry from the Allis/Thomas course which had been rebuilt by Philp and his team over the years, and with 2 new holes added in 2014. According to John Philp the had to rebuild all the greens (and to new designs) and when they did they found bicycle frames and all sorts of rubbish underneath them.

I can't speak of personal experience of the old greens but I can say that the new ones are very good indeed. Possibly they could give you a bit more room to miss but the green complexes were nicely varied and interesting. The routing is good and the whole fits together very well. It's of a more traditional scale and not a modern 90 yard wide fairways type course, and in my view all the better for that.

Yes, a number of the early holes still play through scrub woodland and there are a number of ponds but the trees are mainly silver birch and the ponds natural in appearance ie. no hard edges, sharp drop offs or indeed fountains ! Both do however come into play to an extent, especially on one of the new holes but while I'd prefer they weren't there, they didn't spoil the round.

Overall the course was a big surprise and not what I was expecting. Anyone else played it of late ?

Niall

[mike_beene]

Is the course to the left of 6,7,8? Where does it start and finish? The times I have been to Carnoustie they never encouraged or requested that we add it to play the championship course( which I only know as "Carnoustie").

[Niall C]

Mike


It kind of dog-legs round the 1st, 2nd and 6th, 7th of the championship course. The first/eighteenth holes are just beyond the kids par 3 course along the side of the 1st championship. The 1st/18th were basically the driving range for the Open.


Until I'd played it I'd have recommended to anyone to give it a wide berth based on it's (outdated) reputation but now I'd happily give it a thumbs up. It's not a world beater by any means but a good solid links.


What I omitted to say in my OP was that the second hole is a good par 3 and certainly stronger than the 13th on the championship but I wouldn't necessarily say it was outstanding. It was much like the rest of the course in quality, not exceptional but pretty good.


Niall

[David McIntosh]

Niall,

I played the Buddon course twice in September last year as part of Carnoustie’s Craw’s Nest Tassie event.

I thought it was a decent enough course. It’s not one I’d recommend anyone travel to play in isolation but it would work well as a second round of the day if also playing the Championship course.

I recall the land the course occupies being largely flat but it held my interest due to some good green complexes.

My other main thoughts were:

That the 2nd was a nice par 3 and played as a bit of a beast due to the green being a relatively small target, being straight into the wind, with OB right (it wouldn’t take a massive slice to put it over the fence) and the nature of the broken ground between the tee and green, which means running the ball up isn’t an option.

The 6th was a bit claustrophobic due to the narrow tree lined corridor of play until reaching the green.

I enjoyed the back nine much more than the front. The 10th was one of, if not the, best holes on the course with clever use of the ditch up the left hand side before it cuts diagonally across to come into play on the approach.

I wasn’t a fan of the new 11th, thought it felt out of place on the course and was reminiscent of something you’d see on the Fairmont St Andrews courses.

In contrast, I liked the other new hole at 12, particularly the approach to a raised green that falls away steeply to the right and back.

The stretch from 13-17 was the best on the course with some really good holes (pars 3, 4, 3, 5 and 3), all with strong green sites. I assume credit must go to Philp and his team for these holes on what can be described as fairly bland land alongside the MoD firing range.

Overall, a tough par 68 that I’d bet not many will play to their handicaps on a regular basis.

I understand from speaking with regular Tassie participants that the Buddon was always considered the third course at Carnoustie and a fair bit of money has been spent on improving it over the years to change this perception. I think it’s still the third best course on the property but, having not seen the original Allis/Thomas layout, the investment has surely closed the gap between the Buddon and the Burnside courses.

At a slight tangent, but maybe of interest for anyone contemplating playing either of the other courses whilst at Carnoustie...the Burnside has more similarities to the Championship course, sits on the same type of terrain and I definitely enjoyed it more than the Buddon. If I were a member I could see myself playing the Burnside more frequently than the Buddon, probably an 8-2 split of 10 rounds. That’s not to say the Buddon isn’t a solid course and worth a play, I just thought the Burnside had more going for it and would recommend it first of the two.

[Niall C]

David


Agree totally with your summing up. Some of the original holes have fairly tight playing corridors but not so bad as to be over the top (IMO). Where the Burnside beats the Buddon is in the quality of the land as you say. Where they have managed to create the interest is in the greens which I really enjoyed.


It's certainly a far cry from the reputation it used to have although in fairness I didn't play it before the make-over.


Niall

[Robin_Hiseman]

Having looked at an aerial it makes perfect sense to replace the 13th in Open play with Buddon 2. The 13th creates an awful bottleneck for spectators. 13 and 16 also both play in exactly the same direction. Buddon 2 gives a westerly par 3 the championship course doesn't have. It also gets right out the the coast with the tee backing onto the North Sea.


I think it's a terrific idea.

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