Par-6 Holes

[Matt Schiffer]

Has anyone ever seen a good one?  Where and why? 

Thanks,Matt

[Kalen Braley]

I always thought 18 at Lake Chabot was certainly good.  Probably wouldn't call it great, but good sure!!

[Matt Schiffer]

Thanks Kalen.  I just found this topic from 2013 (is there anything that hasn't been covered yet?)
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54825.0.html
I doubt much has changed...

[Adam Lawrence]

No. The only one I have seen is on the Nicklaus course at Penati in Slovakia and it's lousy.

[Matthew Rose]

It's hard for me to think of one as anything other than a gimmick.

Knowing what little I know about course routing, I can't see any situation where an 800 yard hole fits into things.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

NLE Dodger Pines GC in Vero Beach, FL had a par6:


https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-05-25-9405250285-story.html

[Steve Wilson]

I’ve played three in my lifetime. Either Maplewoods or Bethlehem CC in NH, Meadow Ponds (NLE) in WV and another that I’m not sure even existed when I played. The only feature was long and the one in New Hampshire wasn’t even that long.  Gimmicks for sure.  Now are there holes I’ve played as par 6s, yep including not a few par 3s.  The second at Dornoch comes to mind.

[A.G._Crockett]

There's one on the north end of the Myrtle Beach area at a course named Farmstead.  One of Willard Byrd's last designs, I believe.  The 18th hole is a par 6 that tees off in SC and ends up in NC, which is a pretty good gimmick; the hole is 767 from the tips, and 712 from the second set of tees, which are 6566.  You can do the math on that for your own distances, but you've got to hit three really good shots to have any sort of wedge in for the 4th.  And to make it a bit tougher, it's sort of a cape hole at that.  I don't know if all of that makes it a good hole or a bad hole; I can say for certain that I don't find it to be that much fun to play.

As to the general concept being gimmicky, I don't think it should matter, should it?  A par 6 shouldn't be any more gimmicky relative to a par 5 than a par 5 is to a par 4, should it?  At least not automatically so, anyway.

[Edward Glidewell]

There's one on the north end of the Myrtle Beach area at a course named Farmstead.  One of Willard Byrd's last designs, I believe.  The 18th hole is a par 6 that tees off in SC and ends up in NC, which is a pretty good gimmick; the hole is 767 from the tips, and 712 from the second set of tees, which are 6566.  You can do the math on that for your own distances, but you've got to hit three really good shots to have any sort of wedge in for the 4th.  And to make it a bit tougher, it's sort of a cape hole at that.  I don't know if all of that makes it a good hole or a bad hole; I can say for certain that I don't find it to be that much fun to play.

As to the general concept being gimmicky, I don't think it should matter, should it?  A par 6 shouldn't be any more gimmicky relative to a par 5 than a par 5 is to a par 4, should it?  At least not automatically so, anyway.

This is the only par 6 I've ever played, and yes, it's not a very good hole. The whole course is rather bland, but that hole in particular has almost nothing to it beyond hitting it as far as you can a few times.

[Michael Felton]

As to the general concept being gimmicky, I don't think it should matter, should it?  A par 6 shouldn't be any more gimmicky relative to a par 5 than a par 5 is to a par 4, should it?  At least not automatically so, anyway.

Isn’t it often said that the hardest thing to do well is a layup on a par 5? Having to create interest for two layups on one hole must make it extremely hard to make a good one.


I personally have never played one (although I’ve done a good job of making a few par fours look like par sixes) though that may change this summer. I might play cherry creek on Long Island which finishes with one.

[Peter Pallotta]

Inherently disfunctional, it seems to me:
The good (if not particularly long) golfer finds 3 full shots boring, while the average golfer finds them onerous; and the strategist finds a 700 yard hole banal & uninteresting while the aesthete finds it awkward & unattractive.
Okay, granted: being able to tee off in one state and putt out in another is neat -- but other than that, who does/could the concept appeal to?

[Joel_Stewart]

I always thought 18 at Lake Chabot was certainly good.  Probably wouldn't call it great, but good sure!!

That's the only par 6 I've played and it's fun. 666 straight down hill. It's now reachable in 2 by some in the summer.

[Matthew Rose]

Inherently disfunctional, it seems to me:
The good (if not particularly long) golfer finds 3 full shots boring, while the average golfer finds them onerous; and the strategist finds a 700 yard hole banal & uninteresting while the aesthete finds it awkward & unattractive.

Just on a practical standpoint, I'd think they'd be a nightmare for the beginning player who often need double digits to negotiate "normal" length holes anyway.

[Joe Bausch]

The public course Green Tree in south Jersey has a par 6 topping out at 676 yards and is a decent hole, IMHO.  Water pinches in on both sides in the drive landing area, then the hole doglegs to the left at the landing area for the 2nd shot.

Photos start here:

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/GreenTree/pages/page_17.html

[Jim Nugent]

Out of curiosity, how would #18 at Yale have played when the course opened?  More like a par 5 or a par 6, even for scratch golfers? 

[Jason Connor]

I've played one.  There is a course in far Western MD called Fore Sisters, when it first opened in the mid 1990s it was called The Mountain Club and the 5th hole was a Par 6.


I swear there were days where I was the only one on the course -- and not because it was exclusive -- it was because of sheer indifference to the course -- in part because it was so tight and so many rocks.


That course fell into bankruptcy, it opened with a new name that I forget, fell into bankruptcy, and it's been called Fore Sisters for at least a decade.


The new owners shortened the par 6 to a par 5, and lengthen the 100-yard par 3 6th that followed it.


One of my all time great shots was a 1-iron 3rd shot off the pin at the Par 6.  But it kicked into the left-side trap.  I got out and 2-putted for par.

[Phil Carlucci]

I've played two of the par-6s mentioned here -- Farmstead on the NC/SC border and Cherry Creek Links on Long Island.  I enjoyed the Farmstead course so I didn't really hold the par-6 against it too much.  The Cherry Creek version doesn't really bring much to the table considering the entire round there is -- despite the name -- about aerial attack with long drives and long approaches.  It just adds a second long approach.  It's also odd that there's already a par-5 on the course that's only about 20 yards shorter than the par-6.

[jeffwarne]

If you don't like long par 5's, you're probaly not going to like a par 6.
I enjoy cross country golf so I think a par 6 could be cool-I'v eplayed a couple(one in NC as a kid which I had read about in Golf Digest and actually got really nervous about-still remember every shot I took----another here on Long island recently where my playing partner reached in two with an iron)
A very short hitter is going to have to hit multiple shots, and/or a poor golfer's going to have to string together 4-5-6 good full shots in a row and their weakness is going to be magnified...
As always, these ability differences are grossly magnified by technology and the difference between a high speed optimized player and an average player are woefully exaggerated and revealed when a hole is designed to see how far someone can travel in two-three full shots)


a lot of golfers don't like that as it magnifies one's skill (or lack of) in relation to par-and others.

[Neil White]

Matt,


There is one I know of at the West Midlands Golf Club - see [size=78%]www.westmidlandsgolfclub.co.uk[/size] 


Playing from 565 to 725 yards it's a shocker, especially in the winter when the ground becomes wet and the hole plays into the prevailing north-westerly wind.  With little to interest the golfer until they reach the last 100 yards, where you find the first bunker of which there are a further three, it just becomes a slog. 


The club seem to use it as a marketing gimmick along with their own version of Sawgrass 17th.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Quite hard to find a stretch of land that is 700 yards long and interesting for golf. What would a 700 yarder be like 9th tee at Pebble Beach to the 10th green.....that's about as good land as your going to get for a Par 6.....the good land is kind of wasted on ONE hole.

[Kyle Harris]

Conceptually, I think the hole only generates interest if it has to play around a significant geographic or topographic feature that is both playable over/through but also reasonable to play around.


In other words, 4 shots to navigate around it safely or 2 aggressive shots over/through it which set up the chance for a well-thought out third shot into the putting green.


The dogleg angle may approach 90 degrees, when all is said and done, otherwise the geometry just doesn't lend much interest.


I don't think a drop or penalty stroke should be in the mix.

[Thomas Dai]

For many, and not just begineer's or the young or the aged or the infirm, who are playing from the wrong tees, or for some reason have to play from the wrong tees, there are already loads of par-6's .... and par-7's, par-8''s par-9's etc.
atb

[Kalen Braley]

I think this is why the 18th at Lake Chabot is so interesting. 

A dog leg of 20-30 degrees, lots of elevation change, small green with kick boards, potential for blind shots on different parts of the hole, and even a cart path that reminds of Lombard street!     I've played it at least 3-4 times and never managed to par it.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lake+Chabot+Golf+Course/@37.7433753,-122.1184873,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipMmmUI8STwABlPf2e6C4Yrw-m8j7WbCzAnKfIkr!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMmmUI8STwABlPf2e6C4Yrw-m8j7WbCzAnKfIkr%3Dw203-h114-k-no!7i2500!8i1406!4m5!3m4!1s0x808f8e5105f4c5cd:0xe2556f9f6e4a2931!8m2!3d37.7433753!4d-122.1184873

[Brad Tufts]

I’ve played three in my lifetime. Either Maplewoods or Bethlehem CC in NH, Meadow Ponds (NLE) in WV and another that I’m not sure even existed when I played. The only feature was long and the one in New Hampshire wasn’t even that long.  Gimmicks for sure.  Now are there holes I’ve played as par 6s, yep including not a few par 3s.  The second at Dornoch comes to mind.

The one at Maplewoods is 610...and dead straight.  The first hole is a par 5, and only 438 yards..so that's the standard that's being set.

[Jim Nugent]

Suppose the pro's face a legit par 6.  Won't you expect them to average even more under par there than on par 5s?  My reasoning is that unless it's 900 yards long, they have the chance to play a much shorter shot for double eagle (and eagle and birdie) than on par 5s.  If so, and considering they average 4.6 or so on par 5s, maybe they average 5.4-5.5 on par 6s.

in the 4th round of the 2010 US Open, the field averaged right at 5.43 on #14.  Compared to most par 5s, it played more like a par 6 that day for the best players in the world.