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Joel_Stewart

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Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« on: October 27, 2003, 12:37:58 PM »
Anyone know the status of the golf courses in Southern Cal?  I heard the phones are off.

David Kelly

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Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2003, 01:00:09 PM »
Read Lynn's response #13 on the "What to take in case of a fire?" thread and he describes some of the fire he saw at Rustic.  He saw flames along the 5th fairway and over by the 6th tee.  

I have a friend who was supposed to go to an event last night at Lost Canyons that was cancelled.  From where Lost Canyons is located it is hard for anyone to get close but he said that it looked like the fire must have gone through that area.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

JohnV

Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2003, 01:30:17 PM »
Given where I heard the fires were in San Diego, I got to wonder if Barona Creek was affected.  Any word from down that way?

Pete Lavallee

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Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2003, 01:44:37 PM »
The San Diego wild fires started just east of Barona and were blown to the west by the Santa Anna winds. The Barona complex (casino/hotel/golf course) was in a lockdown yesterday, as there was no safe route to exit the facility. I tried calling the golf course today, but the phone lines are down. San Diego is a mess, the sun is completely blotted out by the smoke, 400 homes lost and 11 deaths. Fortunately we have only one golf course that could burn down, the Dye remade Carlton Oaks in Santee.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

JohnV

Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2003, 01:48:12 PM »
Thanks Pete.  I remember when I got to UCSD for my freshman year in 1970 the fires were raging out east.  With the Santa Ana winds blowing there was a significant amount of ash covering the desk in my dorm room.  I hope that they get this under control before too many more people are killed or burned out of their homes.

Joel_Stewart

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Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2003, 06:08:22 PM »
I'm bringing this to the front to see if anyone has new information.  

TEPaul

Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2003, 08:20:25 PM »
Geoffshac and Lynn are OK and Geoff said there was fire over the hills but Rustic is Ok and even if some of the shrub brush burned it would recover quickly. Are those hardcore golfers like TommyN and DavidM going to go out there and play anyway? I've played in some pretty dense fog but never in dense smoke.

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2003, 10:08:54 PM »
I am going to play Rustic Canyon when it opens.  So far their phones are not working.  The fire departments are using much of the site.  Some of the burning to the edge of the fairways won't look good now, but will be good in the long run as the native stuff will restablish.  As I mentioned in a another thread, David M. will probably have pictures up soon of Rustic.  Lost Canyons is not ever in my thoughts much so I couldn't tell you anything.  The fire had to burn around it some one would think.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

A_Clay_Man

Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2003, 08:18:49 AM »
 Another reason to prune a few trees.

The CCC should adopt the theology that Golf courses must be used as fire breaks and are a net positive for the state?

ddavid426

Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2003, 01:19:50 PM »
Bringing this back up to the top.  Any new word?

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2003, 05:52:43 PM »
Does anyone have photos of this on golf courses? I wonder how Pauma Valley is doing - tried calling but no answer.

Todd_Eckenrode

Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2003, 06:49:29 PM »
As of this morning (and to the best of my knowledge) Pauma Valley is fine, with the fire having gotten close from the south, but didn't quite get there.  Brad, if you need additional info, let me know.

Have also heard from someone at Barona that the fire did pass thru the valley and has gotten quite a few homes in the area.  No word on the course, though.


mrmiyagi

Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2003, 07:13:18 PM »
check out the "photos sent by readers" feature from this local paper.  fire helicopters lifted water from hazards at simi hills golf course & wood ranch gc.  

also see the map of ventura county fires.  

http://www.insidevc.com/vcs/county_news/article/0,1375,VCS_226_2382282,00.html

looks scary for moorpark cc, rustic cyn, lost canyons, tierra rejada...

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2003, 07:27:54 PM »
Don't have much to report at Rustic Canyon.  They don't answer the phone.  Sign at entrance says course is closed, deliveries only.  It looks burned down to the edge of the course, but the grass looks better than ever.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

peter_p

Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2003, 07:40:37 PM »
www.signonsandiego.com has a map accessible from theri main page, shows burnout thru Barona casino. Skyline Ranch CC was shown as a circled defended area near Escondido, and that designation is missing at Barona Casino.
Two people died on Wildcat Canyon Rdm which is the access route to BC.

Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2003, 08:04:17 PM »
A Clay Man

I played Sherwood after the Malibu fires in 94?  It looked was very effective as a fire break.

Will be out towards Rustic and Lost Canyons tomorrow with Tommy N. if it is possible to get to the sites.

Geoff_Shackelford

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Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2003, 08:52:39 PM »
Virtually all of the hills surrounding Rustic Canyon burned, as did much of the protected native corridor running through the course (with some exceptions). The oaks, eucalyptus and most walnuts sustained only minor damage according to superintendent Jeff Hicks. The course will be closed until Friday at least, and reopen with carts on the paths for sometime. :) Jeff reports that there are two shades at the moment: green and black. So it's gone from a native golf course to moon golf for the foreseeable future.

The driving range, its lovely poles and its lovely artificial landing area did not succumb to the flames unfortunately. However, the neo-South Central LA-faux craftsman clubhouse is still mint green with white trim and still standing with its hideous paint job.

The good news: Rustic is a native course, and the California sage scrub that abounds actually responds very well to burns if left alone and not washed away by heavy rains. In fact, the springtime wildflowers next year will be stunning (imagine hills in purple and gold, I witnessed it in Malibu this last year). More good news, the course was insured and will have the resources to replace all of the plant material it wishes to replace. The fire regenerates many of the shrubs, and Jeff will be able to replace many other areas.

And the best news, the fire burned out most of the "fox tail" non-native grass that after years of grazing prior to golf had replaced the more beautiful and practical "stipa" grasses in the prairie areas. Jeff will be able to hydro-seed stipa in these areas and actually restore the true native grass to the area, which will ultimately look better and play better for the long term. However, in the short term, the golfers will have to help these areas by staying out of them, something that many won't do no matter how nicely you ask them.

Of course, these fires are very sad for Southern California, but Rustic Canyon did serve as a fire break and likely helped save hundreds of homes because of its location. The helicopter pads placed near #12 were used as staging areas for three water-dropping helicopters. And kudos to Jeff Hicks for doing so much to take care of the place and help the neighbors in a trying time. He was on site for 72 hours straight, no sleep, no food and some of the neighbors and their horses spent one night in the maintenance facility!

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2003, 09:04:22 PM »
I suppose the avocado ranch didn't stand a chance? :-\  I saw Yellowstone after the infamous burn of 88-9?  It changed in character from the old growth to the brillian meadows.  But, all in all, nature has its positive ways with natural rebirth, and unfortuantely, it has its way with man's dwellings too.  But, even that sounds like a flicker of hope in that it actually will raise the economy with rebuilding burned structures and many jobs to rebuild.  Heck, with insurance, and re-insurance and all the risk spread out wide, even that sector won't be too damaged.  Instead of a national tax to bail out CA from its financial woes, nature will levy the tax and distribute the money raised to rebuild through the insurance and the Fed.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2003, 09:09:08 PM »
.Geoff,
  Thanks for the update. Thanks to Jeff Hicks for his dedicated marathon efforts. I'll be buying that man a beer the next time I get down to Rustic.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

JohnV

Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2003, 04:40:19 PM »
Pete L, any new word on Barona.  Also what about Maderas, it looks like the fire went right through there also.

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2003, 04:53:49 PM »
The fire made its' way right to the edge of the Barona Creek Golf Course and to the entrance road to the Casino, both came through OK. The Casino is partially open as of today, the golf course won't be open until Sat. at the earliest.

The fire got to within 4 miles of Maderas, so no damage was done there.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

JohnV

Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2003, 05:00:24 PM »
Thanks Pete, glad to hear that they came through ok.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2003, 08:40:53 PM »
Jeff will be able to hydro-seed stipa in these areas and actually restore the true native grass to the area, which will ultimately look better and play better for the long term. However, in the short term, the golfers will have to help these areas by staying out of them, something that many won't do no matter how nicely you ask them.

Geoff- I don't know how much input you have or care to have but here's a perfect opportunity to impose what I like to call the 'new cruelty'. Follow me: When the customer pays for his round he is informed of the policies and told of the consequences if violated. Making the consequence similar to a "black Balling".  If any one does violate the rules and they don't immediately show remorse management has the authority to suspend privledges comensurate with the "bad attitude".
I'd wager with the power that comes from the combo of course quality and low green fees 98% of your clientel will oblige and the two that don't, do you really want them on your canvas?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2003, 08:48:45 PM by A_Clay_Man »

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2003, 09:34:03 AM »
Tragedies like this one in CA may have an unintended silver lining for golf.  As discussed on previous threads regarding golf and the environment, golf is seen by some as being very harmful and undesirable.  And despite that many non-golfers choose to live on or close to golf courses for aesthetic reasons, the game is not viewed positively by significant numbers of the population.  That RC served as a fire break, possibly saving homes, lives, and wildlife habitat should be greatly appreciated by all.  Does anyone know if the golf course was also used by area wildlife to escape the spreading fire and as refuge?  

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2003, 10:01:55 AM »
Lou,

This is California and you are trying to apply logic  8).  Didn't you just notice that they elected Arnold govenor.  I'll tell you what will happen:

The red flanked plovering lizard will have come on to the course to escape the fire.  It will turn out that this specific lizard is allergic to the chemicals used to treat the golf course.  Tommy Naccarato, Lynn, the developer and Jeff will be sued for killing the lizard by the California coalition for environmental Naziism and an entire new set of regulations will be put in place for any new golf course development.  :'(
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04